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Instant straight lines

User avatar nezumi
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Re: Instant straight lines

Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:40 am
ghevan wrote:I for instance almost never resize using SHIFT drag

Do whatever you want but leave shift+drag brush resize as an option as I am using it ALL the time :P
valerievk
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Re: Instant straight lines

Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:50 am
*sigh* This issue is actually quite complicated, isn't it. There are basically at least 4 or 5 types of users, all with likely different opinions on shortcuts:
- Mouse users. This group Loves the shift+drag resizing, for example. Hands down a favorite feature. I know several users who switched to Krita Just for this feature.
- Graphics tablet frequently using keyboards. Shortcuts are OK, but they can vary size with pressure.
- Graphics tablet not using keyboards, they can set some shortcuts to one of the buttons on their tablet, but "everything via shortcuts" = boo.
- Draw-on-screen with a pen. Since they're drawing directly on the screen, anything that forces them to use shortcuts/keyboard is a step back.
- Draw-on-a-screen with fingers. Krita Sketch, basically. And same issues as above.

Apart from that, you can further sub-divide into groups of users:
- Artists that draw mostly organic forms would care mostly about freehand tools, so it's no big deal if lines are a bit hard to access.
- Those who draw architectural forms need better line tools performance and access.
- .... etc.?

Now, at this point, the only solution I can think of that could Maybe satisfy everyone is a panel you access by clicking a button somewhere, for Freehand for example, and you get a pop-up with a list of modifiers + drop-down:
- Shift:
- Alt:
- Ctrl:
- Space:
- And a bunch of options for uh.... tablet buttons and touch-screen.

From there you can choose what each function does: draw straight line, modify size, modify rotation, switch to color picker, Whatever. Then you can either assign this as default, or create a custom tool preset out of it, which you can access from... not sure, a custom toolbar, custom shortcuts (maybe even something like Shift+[number]), a subset of the right-click wheel, etc.

Of course, if someone else can come up with a much more awesome idea, that'd be, well, much more awesome. I'm personally not That thrilled about this idea, but it does seem like a solution where users can get what they want without other users screaming bloody murder. You may think, by the way, that modifying the default is enough, but in fact I'm hoping for more drawing sub-modes for the drawing tools, so custom presets would be handy.

.... and when you create custom brush presets, you could have an extra box to check if you want to remember the tool settings used. I mean, some brushes are only used with freehand, some with lines, etc. No wait, if you can save the tool settings to a preset, then you don't actually need to save tool settings separately, probably.

Last edited by valerievk on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar nezumi
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Re: Instant straight lines

Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:41 am
Personally I dont see anything bad in separate tool for straight lines. When it comes to changing size though... It is much more vital problem. I am a tablet user but you cant vary size with pressure, come on. I mean ofcourse you can but pressure sensitivity isn't there to replace changing general size of the brush. It is to vary size within chosen extremes. But you still need to choose maximum size. Also using tablet doesn't mean you will only use brushes that change size with pressure. In fact I am using almost exclusively those that don't. Pressure may be used for different things as transparency (I guess most popular brush in the world - rounded hard brush with transparency controlled by pressure). All the good programs allow to change brush size in some user friendly way as this is really important stuff that one is dealing with all the time. I really miss that kind of smooth size change in MyPaint - Krita is just perfect as it is. For me.

And that's the problem - for me doesn't mean for everybody (sadly :P). So potential changes should leave configuration choices without restricting others from working as they used to. I would hate if somebody took away existing option that is used practically all the time and replace it with occasionally used by some option...

All this straight line problem for me is a bit exaggerated and I tell you why. Krita is mainly drawing/painting software, right? Using straight lines in drawing/painting isnt that common - most is done with freehand tools. There is functionality of straight lines already so if you need to draw them you can. If you are making lets say some architectural sketch/drawing you will stay in that tool quite a bit, its not like you will constantly have to jump between freehand and straight lines. So while I am all for letting people choose what they want shift to do, I will respectfully oppose idea of alienating by default undoubtedly important size changing with occasionally needed lines.
TheraHedwig
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Re: Instant straight lines

Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:48 am
If we're at it, can I put down a proposal for assignable functions to rightclick/ctrl+click/shift+click in general?

People have mentioned preffering straight lines on the shift, and I myself would much rather have the colourpicker on rightclick than the quick menu(which is near useless to me), perhaps someone else wants the pan or eraser tool on rightclick, and rotate on crtl+click.

I think, allowing flexibility in this, and the reworking of the hotkey system as discussed in the mailing list would take a lot of debate on which hotkey a new function is supposed to have: people can just choose for themselves.(and easily backup for themselves)

Edit:What vallerie said. >_<
valerievk
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Re: Instant straight lines

Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:07 am
My GUI proposal for a solution that will hopefully make all some users happy(er):
Image
(and any other modifiers available added to the list)

Me, I'm setting Shift for ALL tools to modify size.

Edit: oh yeah, and for the "easy line with varying size": (works only for vector-like tools such as straight lines and path, greyed out for freehand etc.)
Image

What this does is take the curve as though it were the pressure input while drawing that line, and apply all dynamics that are mapped to pressure. Easy access, easy edit, maybe possible to detach just like the brush engine drop-down, etc.
User avatar maygon
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Re: Instant straight lines

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:12 pm
nevermind guys, I'll just use a ruler ;D

it looks like the discussion is hovering more around configuring modifiers,
I would direct the developers attention to the japanese program clip studio, or its english distribution, manga studio, for its keyboard shortcut dialog. It may give some idea on how to approach it. I found last night that this program's line tool also has some excellent features for dynamics on lines.
Ryan
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Re: Instant straight lines

Tue May 28, 2013 1:47 pm
Just my thoughts on geometric type stuff. Straightlines etc. Mypaint has this really well sorted. It's awesome and no messing around with complexity on the canvas. You can also draw a straight line then hold shift to bend that line wherever you grab it. This is an great feature. I don't know if that can be done in Krita. There is also a graph to draw the line pressure. That's quite useful as well. Of course in Krita you have the extra ruler tools for very precise line control and that is useful for sure because you are actually drawing the line the way you want it to appear in terms of pressure etc but quick straight lines or elipses just by drawing exactly like in Mypaint is a great method.

In a real world example. Lets say you want to draw lots of elipses quickly. In Krita this is simply a hassle but in Mypaint you select the elipse tool and draw hundreds of elipses immediately if you want. The severity of the elipse is controlled by pen movement in one direction and the other direction is size. Once again shift is utilised but this time to change the angle of the elipse. This is awesome. Also, the connected straight line tool allows shift to bend the last connected line. Maybe there are other tricks but these functions alone are perfect and make Mypaint hands down the best app for any line drawing work.
Ryan
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Re: Instant straight lines

Tue May 28, 2013 2:07 pm
I have a question about the straight line tool in Krita. The tool options has Varying End-Points yet This doesn't seem to do anything or am I doing something wrong?
User avatar maygon
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Re: Instant straight lines

Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:42 pm
revisiting the line tool here:
I'm beginning to agree with having the line tool as a separate tool, mainly because it gets extra features like varying end points and ALT drag the line - but the standalone tool has soon quirks that make it harder to use than the native brush tool. the one thats getting me is that you don't get to see the actual stroke when you are in mid drag. its a preview pink vector, and then when you let go you see the line. this is problematic when you are laying a big fat line because you don't know how its gonna lay when you let go, so alt drag moving it doesnt really help. another one is there is no previews when using the symmetry modes, so again you really don't know what you are gonna get. last one is that when you constrain the line to an axis with shift, all the varying pressure/tilt/endpoints features for some reason are turned off. could we maybe see some improvements on the line tool if a shift constrain from the normal brush isn't going to happen?
User avatar boudewijn
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Re: Instant straight lines

Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:58 pm
Well, sure... We're really open to all suggestions for improvements! Just keep in mind that are so many things to hack on, to improve, fix, or make faster... There's some kind of prioritization needed. If you search bugs.kde.org for Krita, you'll find about 150 bugs and about as many registered 'wishes' -- that is, feature requests. And all of them make sense: otherwise we'd have closed them already :-).
User avatar maygon
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Re: Instant straight lines

Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:35 pm
:'(

 
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