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Unique Virtual Desktops and new kwin Wall effect

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psifidotos
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Dear TheBlackCat,

thank you very much for participating,

I didnt even know about FDO. I've just learned it.
About the virtual desktop code which is rigid. I think that it can change if there is a willing force inside our community which believes in that change and knows what want to achieve.

About compatibility with standards. I dont believe in breaking compatibility, but if there is a need for change then standards must follow that will because we dont want to break compatibility.

But the first question we must answer before that, is if we want our computers to interact with us in that way.(?)

From the programming point of view, because I am a programmer I believe that all the pieces exist but have not been combined. What is missing right now, I believe is the focus, the target. To know exactly where we want to go...

I believe that when a community knows its path, everything else just follows that will...
airdrik
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psifidotos wrote:Dear airdrik,

thank you very much for your response,

I am not sure if I can understand what you are describing when you say "Why is my Programming activity to the left of my Entertainment activity, but not next to my Research activity? Why can any activity only have two neighbors - I switch to/from my e-mail activity from/to any other activity all the time."

I was using that as a counter-example to your statement about there being a spatial relation between activities. Such a relation only exists if the user decides that it exists.
Of course when presenting activities, there needs to be some ordering so they can be displayed in an orderly fashion; so while the user doesn't need to arrange the activities in a spacial fashion, they can be ordered for display.
Activities in general can change position but I think you are describing that you can go from any Activity to any Activity without having to go through the middle ones. I cant find that limitation in the mockups, you can go instantly from VD2 in Lessons(Activity) to VD3 in Programming(Activity).

Also I did not describe that a set of VDs will arrange in a grid of X by Y, Each Activity has a column of VDs, not a grid.


Currently you can arrange the VDs within an activity in a grid (which configuration is tucked away in the pager plasmoid, rather than in system setting with the other VD configs, but that is another issue altogether). So currently I can have 4 activities, each having a grid of 2x3 desktops. With the option to have per-activity desktops, I could have one activity with 1x4 desktops, another with 2x2, another with 2x3, another with 5x3, etc. Would the view display the VDs according to their grid arrangements, or would it unroll them into a single column?


airdrik, proud to be a member of KDE forums since 2008-Dec.
psifidotos
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Dear airdrik,

thanks for commenting again,

I understood your description, you mean that for display reasons, activities could be displayed as a grid. That is a good note concerning the current demonstrated mockups. For example thinking 6 activities with 1 VD each one, there is a possibility to be presented as a grid of 3x2. I think that the user should be able to enable such behaviour. On the other hand a different approach could be showing on the screen every time for example only 3 activities and by scrolling left to right accessing the other activities (it is a way not wasting space for example by showing 6 Activities in a single row or column).

About the grids of VDs 3x2, 3x3 etc.
Now I understood your 3-dimensions logic you were describing before. It is a very interesting case. It could be handled like the new Firefox editions do with groups of tabs.

For example:

<a href="http://imgur.com/qWmBv"><img width="700" src="http://i.imgur.com/qWmBv.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com" alt="" /></a>



Both my original mockups and the previous one could coexist. It is just a different approach in presenting the same thing. But at the same time the functionalities we need from Activities and WorkAreas remain. By both mockups (the previous one and the original one) the user's workflow is enhanced further even though I prefer my first ones. I find them more clean and consistent ...


About the widget case in the panel, I have not thought it a lot but I believe something like:
brainstorm.php?mode=idea&i=94324#anchormain

could also coexist with the currrent implementation.


I hope that I gave you to understand my opinions in the matter...

I hope also that the various ideas, disagreements, opinions etc will continue to flow through this discussion....
psifidotos
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I 'd like to inform the community that I am working on this at:
gitorious link
it is a qml project right now in order to create the interface....
(you can just run it with qmlviewer Activities2.qml )
Development Steps:
1) Creating the qml interface (in a way to be ready for the plasma technologies
data engines, c++ wrappers, etc...)
2) Creating the plasmoid and implement the functionality needed
for activities by using the activities data engine/service (clean qml plasmoid)
3) Creating the c++ code for the plasmoid for all the functionality that is not
provided other way(hybrid plasmoid with c++ and qml)

Anyone wants to help dont hesitate, it is the first time i am using git and its
power is incredible... :)
psifidotos
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Hello everyone, development proceeds around this idea:

Home Page: http://www.opentoolsandspace.org/en/projects/development/plasmoid-workflow
Video: https://vimeo.com/43340669
Gitorious: https://gitorious.org/activities-plasma

I hope to have your feedback, there is a video in the previous links in which you can see the
QML UI...

Regards,
Michail
psifidotos
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Hello everyone,

I have a small update, development proceeds in time.
the plasmoid has reached phase03 and you can watch a video here:

Video:https://vimeo.com/45061682

Cheers,
Michail
psifidotos
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Hello everyone,
Great Great news from here... :)

the plasmoid is in beta now and you can test it out very easy,
as there are OpenSuse BuildService Builds for those using OpenSuse....

Important Links:

New Beta - Video
Project's Page

OpenSuse BuildService

KDe - Look Page
Transifex Page
zentella
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I just tried it! And it's fantastic! Activities are a very good idea, but with a easy-use like this they become a very usefull tool. Thanks for your work friend!
Now some ideas for your great plasmoid:
- It will be nice drag'n'drop windows between desktops!
- When using the 'window state' button, changing from single to all-workaras it's a simple clic, but if you want go from all-workareas to single, you have to push button, go down to the new application placement, and push another time. I think this case it's perfect for an 'on-hover menu' with the 3 options (something like the tooltip dialog on hover).
- Some arrowkeys navigation? that will enhance usability.
- Last one... what about change positions between delete and pause buttons on activities? All applications on kde default systems have an X on the left-up side of the window, to close it. In your plasmoid, the X appears at left-up side, but that time it not closes the activity, it deletes it. I pushed it 2 times to pause (close in my mind) the activity, and only the alert message saved my activity from dead :). I think it will not be much more than 5 or 6 times more, but for new users that will be more intuitive. All that its an opinion, of course!
-(editted to add this one!) The close Desktop button covers the 1st close window button.

Hope im dont boring you! and keep up the good work!!!
Sorry for my english!
psifidotos
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zentella wrote:I just tried it! And it's fantastic! Activities are a very good idea, but with a easy-use like this they become a very usefull tool. Thanks for your work friend!
Now some ideas for your great plasmoid:
- It will be nice drag'n'drop windows between desktops!
- When using the 'window state' button, changing from single to all-workaras it's a simple clic, but if you want go from all-workareas to single, you have to push button, go down to the new application placement, and push another time. I think this case it's perfect for an 'on-hover menu' with the 3 options (something like the tooltip dialog on hover).
- Some arrowkeys navigation? that will enhance usability.
- Last one... what about change positions between delete and pause buttons on activities? All applications on kde default systems have an X on the left-up side of the window, to close it. In your plasmoid, the X appears at left-up side, but that time it not closes the activity, it deletes it. I pushed it 2 times to pause (close in my mind) the activity, and only the alert message saved my activity from dead :). I think it will not be much more than 5 or 6 times more, but for new users that will be more intuitive. All that its an opinion, of course!
-(editted to add this one!) The close Desktop button covers the 1st close window button.

Hope im dont boring you! and keep up the good work!!!
Sorry for my english!



You are not boring me at all,
you can follow Github link for proposals and tickets.
Now,
1.Drag n' drop is supported for Windows but because of the PressAndHold event you must persist in pressing
before it is activated. I am working on it to be more intuitive.
2.It is an interesting idea but I dont want to create clutter with many windows, I was thinking something simpler
for example the right button to go states in reverse. What do u think?
3.arrowkeys navigation will be tested for 0.3 version
4.changing positions, can you give an example about the delete being on the left? I wanted to be far in distance
as possible to protect the user.
5.I know, I trying to find a solution .I had tried to make the first llst item lower but i didnt like the visual result, we ll see.

Regards,
michail
zentella
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Fast response!! thx
I see that mostly of the points are yet commented on Git :P.

1. (Press'n'hold) Ok! didnt noticed! Now i can change windows from desktops, maybe a little slowly, but it's not a very common action move a lot of windows.
2. (Window state) I think left/right button option it's perfect :). Maybe some 'first-use tooltip' to inform, if not maybe people doesnt notices the option.
3. (Key navigation) Waiting to see it implemented!
4. (Delete button) I wanted to reedit my comment, because i see that this point it's a bad use at my part, i didnt block the activities. Now working with blocked activities it's no more confusion ;). (i dont know if my english its good enough to explain this.... sorry :P).
5. (Close 1st window) Ok, you thinked on it too :). Maybe a slightly little X button, and move a little to the right the window button. Its only a few pixels.

thanks for the response, and if you prefer i can put my thinks on Git.

You are a very good designer, it looks fantastic, and very suitable for plasma active too.
psifidotos
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zentella wrote:Fast response!! thx
I see that mostly of the points are yet commented on Git :P.

1. (Press'n'hold) Ok! didnt noticed! Now i can change windows from desktops, maybe a little slowly, but it's not a very common action move a lot of windows.
2. (Window state) I think left/right button option it's perfect :). Maybe some 'first-use tooltip' to inform, if not maybe people doesnt notices the option.
3. (Key navigation) Waiting to see it implemented!
4. (Delete button) I wanted to reedit my comment, because i see that this point it's a bad use at my part, i didnt block the activities. Now working with blocked activities it's no more confusion ;). (i dont know if my english its good enough to explain this.... sorry :P).
5. (Close 1st window) Ok, you thinked on it too :). Maybe a slightly little X button, and move a little to the right the window button. Its only a few pixels.

thanks for the response, and if you prefer i can put my thinks on Git.

You are a very good designer, it looks fantastic, and very suitable for plasma active too.


Well good news actually...

1.It is fixed (as a hack actually but the user doesnt know this... :) ) responsiveness in picking up an item
is almost instanteous. ( the time gap is just to give the user the time to have a simple click (in next version
probably there is a chance for the selecte KDE time gap to be used now for the WorkFlow is 120ms)

2.I couldnt use Right click (it shows the plasmoid's settings menu) neither middle button because it used
in scrolling the area) my only remaining option was PressAndHold but if the users want we can make with
a keyboard trigger for example Shift+left click.... Open this ticket in github if you want and we can have
a constructive discussion.

3.Will go for 0.3 (near Christmas probably)

5.I think is fixed.

--for the design I like it a lot actually but I want to improve some things. (e.g. The Activities Icons on top
and the zoom slider at the bottom, I dont know if something better could be done. I am definitely open to
ideas, mockups etc....)

You can test 1-2-5 if you want from the github version if you want....

Many evenings(Greece time 20:00-21:30) I am around the #workflow-project channel in freenode servers....

See you around...
zentella
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It moves fast! nice to see ^-^
Now i have to study until 5th september... will test and comment something with more time!
salut!
psifidotos
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Version 0.2.2 is almost ready, the current master branch is going to be used
For anyone interested in helping somehow:

1. Translate the plasmoid in your language:
https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/WorkFlow_Project/

2. Test master branch in order to find any broken behavior: https://github.com/psifidotos/workflow-project

New Feautues:
--window previews when the plasmoid is in the panel
--use the current activity's icon in the panel (you can enable it from the configuration dialog)
--Tooltip for the plasmoid when used in the panel
--new zoom slider
--delete activity button moved to the stopped activities
of course, many bug fixes from 0.2.1 ...
User avatar fakd
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Hello Michail,
I'm very new to KDE and when I read your post, it was (for me at least) the very first time I actually understand the concept of activities. So a big thank you for that!!!
Your introduction within the plasmoid is also awesome, one really notice that you are a (probably very good :-) teacher.

I tried your plasmoid and it worked almost (there was an error first, but it was gone after 2nd try) out of the box. Also I couldn't find any errors within the plasmoid so far.
So I played around with your plasmoid to find out what it is actually all about, which is more than I expected from the first post, but I could figure it all out, since it is quite self-explanatory.

However from your mockups I expected something more like the Desktop Grid, but with added activities.
Image


However it is good as it is, but I would recommend to go in full-screen. Ideally IMHO your plasmoid should be launched by hotkeys, or by screen edges as under system settings.

Keep up the good work! Greetings
richard

Also three requests/bugs:
1. I changed the names of the workareas within the workflow plasmoid which worked, but the name didn't change in the rest of the plasma desktop. Is this a bug or a limitation of KDE, is there a restart needed?

2. The state of a window (single, all workareas, overall) can currently only be cycled through, i.e. there is no way to change it from overall to all workareas directly. I would suggest that upon click and hold on the symbol for the window state, the three symbol pop up, one moves the cursor over the desired symbol and releases the mouse.

3. A suggestion for your introduction:
Please reduce "Sightseeing Information" to just "Sightseeing", the former is too long and overlaps with other words. Also just "Sightseeing" fits IMHO better with "Hotels", "Restaurants" since there is also no "Information".
User avatar Malsasa
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Mmm, sorry, but it seems the pictures are dead in TS posting. Please fix them. Thanks :D



 
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