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A few questions about working space color profiles.

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tokigami.kineko
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I have 2 sRGB-capable monitors.

  1. Which color profile should I choose for the working space? I have narrowed the choice down to a few candidates. I'm probably going to work in a linear-gamma color profile.
    • ACEScg
    • rec.2020
    • ACES
    • sRGB
  2. Why do working space color profiles seem to lack white point settings? I still don't know much about colors.
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TheraHedwig
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The working space you have should also depend on what you wanna make. If you have two sRGB capable monitors, sRGB should be fine, but if you want to work a little bigger and with more colors, then rec2020 should also be fine.

lack white point settings

What is a white point setting? There's no such thing in Krita?
tokigami.kineko
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TheraHedwig wrote:The working space you have should also depend on what you wanna make. If you have two sRGB capable monitors, sRGB should be fine, but if you want to work a little bigger and with more colors, then rec2020 should also be fine.


I will buy AdobeRGB-capable monitors in the future, so it may help to work in a larger working color profile.
What disadvantages does ACEScg have over Rec.2020? It is said that movies are already being made in ACEScg color profiles.
Why do digital painters not also work in ACEScg?

TheraHedwig wrote:What is a white point setting? There's no such thing in Krita?


I meant things like D65(6500K) and D50(5000K) as described on https://docs.krita.org/Viewing_Conditions.
I recently learned some basic theories about computer colors, so I'm still confused about white point.
I thought white point should be a part of ICC profile. Enlighten me if you think you know better.
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TheraHedwig
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There's no particular disadvantage between rec2020 and acescg. Both would need 16bit, and painters don't use either commonly because they do not know why they would want to use them.

You cannot set the whitepoint. It is something that is a central part of the colorspace, and baked into the profile or the lut. The white point is just something you need to be aware of when handling different spaces due to the hue of the white being different between spaces, giving a different tone to images.
tokigami.kineko
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TheraHedwig wrote:painters don't use either commonly because they do not know why they would want to use them.


How can I benefit from rec.2020 or ACEScg as a digital painter?

TheraHedwig wrote:You cannot set the whitepoint. It is something that is a central part of the colorspace, and baked into the profile or the lut. The white point is just something you need to be aware of when handling different spaces due to the hue of the white being different between spaces, giving a different tone to images.


Fortunately, I just found that krita color space browser displays the white point for each working space color profile. If the working space color profile's white point was D60 or D50 and the device color profile's white point was D65, would I see distorted images?
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TheraHedwig
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1. More variation in color and the preciser output of said color to various devices. Unless you have destination devices in mind that are bigger than rec2020, it should be fine to use.

2. That depends on the rendering intent. Relative colorimetric will align the whitepoints, meaning white will stay the same, absolute colorimetric will not. But unless you have profiled your monitor correctly with a colorimeter, it will not matter much.
tokigami.kineko
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TheraHedwig wrote:1. More variation in color and the preciser output of said color to various devices. Unless you have destination devices in mind that are bigger than rec2020, it should be fine to use.


I have a Spyder5 Express colorimeter, but I am not totally sure if I profiled my monitor correctly with DisplayCAL GUI.

If I used rec.2020 or ACEScg in my images with relative colorimetric or perceptual rendering intent on an sRGB-capable monitor, according to http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/color-space-conversion.htm, I'd probably see wrong colors.
With relative colorimetric intent, gradients that contain out-of-gamut colors will lose contrast.
With perceptual intent, colors will be shifted.
In either case, I can't possibly imagine what the actual image would look like on a future monitor that supports the color gamut of rec.2020.
I'm essentially blind to colors outside sRGB color gamut. I'm beginning to empathize with color-blind people.

It is a difficult choice. I don't have enough information to determine which color profile to use on the working space. Do you have tips?
tokigami.kineko
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TheraHedwig wrote:1. More variation in color and the preciser output of said color to various devices. Unless you have destination devices in mind that are bigger than rec2020, it should be fine to use.


If I used rec.2020 or ACEScg in my images with relative colorimetric or perceptual rendering intent on an sRGB-capable monitor, according to http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/color-space-conversion.htm, I'd probably see wrong colors.
With relative colorimetric intent, gradients that contain out-of-gamut colors will lose contrast.
With perceptual intent, colors in sRGB color gamut will be shifted.
In either case, I can't possibly imagine what the actual image would look like on a future monitor that supports the color gamut of rec.2020.
I'm essentially blind to colors outside sRGB color gamut. I'm beginning to empathize with color-blind people.

It is a difficult choice. I don't have enough information to determine which color profile to use on the working space. Do you have tips?

TheraHedwig wrote:2. That depends on the rendering intent. Relative colorimetric will align the whitepoints, meaning white will stay the same, absolute colorimetric will not. But unless you have profiled your monitor correctly with a colorimeter, it will not matter much.


I have a Spyder5 Express colorimeter, but I am not totally sure if I profiled my monitor correctly with DisplayCAL GUI.
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TheraHedwig
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For you first bit, yes, if you do not wish to have any color distortion at all on you sRGB capable monitors, you should take sRGB, 8bit. Anything else will have the possibility of not showing the out of gamut color. That is the way things are.
tokigami.kineko
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TheraHedwig wrote:For you first bit, yes, if you do not wish to have any color distortion at all on you sRGB capable monitors, you should take sRGB, 8bit. Anything else will have the possibility of not showing the out of gamut color. That is the way things are.


I am willing to accept very slight distortions caused by conversion from sRGB 16bit to sRGB 8bit without a second of hesitation.
Since I never saw rec.2020 colors in real life, I don't know whether conversion from rec.2020 or ACEScg to sRGB or AdobeRGB would produce acceptable color distortions.

However, according to http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/lcms-make-icc-profiles.html and http://colour-science.org/posts/about-rgb-colourspace-models-performance/, ACEScg and rec.2020 emulate multiplication operations more closely to spectral data than sRGB and AdobeRGB. If multiplication meant color multiplication, then I'd get more accurate color maths with ACEScg or rec.2020 than with sRGB or AdobeRGB. Beta RGB was the most accurate color space with regard to multiplication.

It seems I still need to learn a little more.


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