so where is the actual difference between a systray and a couple of plasmoids that do the same, from the point of the user?

As for KMix: I need it all the time. When I work at my computer listening to loud and evil music, I need a quick way to regulate the loudness when someone or my phone wants something from me. But actually a keyboard shortcut would be nicer, I think...

michael4910 wrote:so where is the actual difference between a systray and a couple of plasmoids that do the same, from the point of the user?

Plasmoids can display actual usable data, as opposed to just displaying an icon that does not provide any information. And righyt now, systray is a dumbing-ground for all kinds of random stuff. Using plasmoids would force us to actually think what we need and what we do not. It's easy to put an icon on the systray, even if it doesn't provide any real benefit for the user. Putting a plasmoid on the desktop is something that is not done that easily.

For example: why do we need Kwallet-icon on the systray?

As for KMix: I need it all the time. When I work at my computer listening to loud and evil music, I need a quick way to regulate the loudness when someone or my phone wants something from me. But actually a keyboard shortcut would be nicer, I think...

Keyboard-short, yes. Also, hardware-buttons (like on many laptops) would be nice. Alternatively, you could just hit pause .

Also, Kmix could be a plasmoid, as opposed to icon in the systray. And the plasmoid could live in the panel (or desktop, if the user so wishes).

Just for your information, in KDE 4.1.2 at least, you can set shortcuts. Open the main mixer, right click on the particular channel you want ( Front in my case ) and select Configure shortcuts. You can't do this through Settings > Configure Shortcuts. you must right click on the channel you want.

I have to say though if it wasn't for me right clicking instead of left clicking one day I would never know about this

Janne wrote:

michael4910 wrote:so where is the actual difference between a systray and a couple of plasmoids that do the same, from the point of the user?

Plasmoids can display actual usable data, as opposed to just displaying an icon that does not provide any information. And righyt now, systray is a dumbing-ground for all kinds of random stuff. Using plasmoids would force us to actually think what we need and what we do not. It's easy to put an icon on the systray, even if it doesn't provide any real benefit for the user. Putting a plasmoid on the desktop is something that is not done that easily.

For example: why do we need Kwallet-icon on the systray?

As for KMix: I need it all the time. When I work at my computer listening to loud and evil music, I need a quick way to regulate the loudness when someone or my phone wants something from me. But actually a keyboard shortcut would be nicer, I think...

Keyboard-short, yes. Also, hardware-buttons (like on many laptops) would be nice. Alternatively, you could just hit pause .

Also, Kmix could be a plasmoid, as opposed to icon in the systray. And the plasmoid could live in the panel (or desktop, if the user so wishes).

I love my systray, specialy when progams make use of it and can reatret int it like bitttorent,chatt program/im programs,browser, etc to able to give it camands whitout opening it upp.

and formoest my klipper.

and im using kde3 atm, but i hate spce wasted. and things that can be gruped and taked like in the systray icons instead of using sace wasting widgets is good, maybe a hybrid is the way to go? like the icons in a systray in kde4* woub be minimized plasmoiods that can open upp when you klick on them to give you more of use? now im thinking moestly about apps like kliper,kmix and souch apps.. but also be able to stack regular plasmoids in this way..

Janne wrote:And righyt now, systray is a dumbing-ground for all kinds of random stuff. Using plasmoids would force us to actually think what we need and what we do not.

OK, I think I got your point and do agree. Although I'm not sure if all developers will come up with fresh and good ideas by forcing them to use plasmoids.

The new systray in trunk actually supports plasmoids as well as "normal" applcations.

Windows 7 looks like a decent stab at a new OS. I wouldn't use it since I've learned to avoid DRM-ridden proprietary software, but it looks nice. Whether Windows users accept it is another matter entirely. I know a lot of everyday Windows users who still cling to XP and Office 2003 because they don't want to learn new interfaces and losing the text for icons in the taskbar would probably scare the hell out of them.

Some of Windows 7's UI changes probably ought to be considered. Their new menu, for example, is much better than Kickoff because once you click on it you can see (1) favorite applications, (2) recent and frequently used documents, and (3) a button to shut down. Kickoff has those in 3 separate tabs and that's inconvenient. The "jump lists" are also something to consider.

Janne wrote:We should think of a way to totally eliminate the systray. Although hiding icons is a satisfactory workaround. I really don't understand why I would have to constantly see the Kwallet-icon for example. I think that Kwallet should be empty by default. It should only contain icons that actually try to tell me something at that very moment. But then again, we have notifications for that....[hr]
Another article:

http://neowin.net/news/live/08/10/28/in ... ndows-7-ui

You have to remember, though, that KDE apps are not the only ones using the systray. If you want to eliminate it, you would also have to do something about GTK+ applications. Not to mention that Wine programs can use the systray too.

Alec wrote:
You have to remember, though, that KDE apps are not the only ones using the systray. If you want to eliminate it, you would also have to do something about GTK+ applications. Not to mention that Wine programs can use the systray too.

There could be legacy-support for systray-stuff (it could be a plasmoid on the desktop), but KDE-apps could move to new and greener pastures.

Janne wrote:

Alec wrote:
You have to remember, though, that KDE apps are not the only ones using the systray. If you want to eliminate it, you would also have to do something about GTK+ applications. Not to mention that Wine programs can use the systray too.

There could be legacy-support for systray-stuff (it could be a plasmoid on the desktop), but KDE-apps could move to new and greener pastures.

Have you thought about XFCE/GNOME users that use KDE apps?

Alec wrote:

Janne wrote:

Alec wrote:
You have to remember, though, that KDE apps are not the only ones using the systray. If you want to eliminate it, you would also have to do something about GTK+ applications. Not to mention that Wine programs can use the systray too.

There could be legacy-support for systray-stuff (it could be a plasmoid on the desktop), but KDE-apps could move to new and greener pastures.

Have you thought about XFCE/GNOME users that use KDE apps?

I thought about an option in KDE settings that lets the user to switch between "use plasma" and "use tray".

Please don't "loose" the systray or some functional equivalent! (am I the only one who thinks this is an absurd suggestion). It is *really* useful.
Almost all the content in the systray is dynamic (is updated to reflect the status of software running on the system) and active (you can interact with it directly to open a relevant application or access a relevant menu). It is always visible so it provides information with the minimum of distraction from the current task. KDE spps are much better behaved than windows apps in this regard.

For my money the task switcher is a much bigger waste of space as typically each application icon is completely static, and most of the time I prefer to switch tasks using alt-tab. But I digress

windows 7? Don't really care. MS gave us transparent window decorations - gah!

I rather see some new things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfzplPIrzjY . Windows 7 is just the same thing as before with a little change under the hood and some eye candy.

I hope linux will also think more on touch our multi touch in there roadmaps, it will be the future also web based applications will be.

The patent situation WRT multi-touch needs to be kept in mind. There are plenty of pages discussing; and the Apple application is still not granted... but that is not to say don't go here! OSS should have been here first IMHO. If it was - no patent - ever. Publication of source code implementing an idea is a very solid disclosure and if unambiguously dated would be able to prevent a patent (except by the code's authors) where applied for after the source code's public release.

One reason why I get frustrated about projects that aim primarily to copy what windows/Mac/whoever does.

Dryfit wrote:I rather see some new things like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfzplPIrzjY . Windows 7 is just the same thing as before with a little change under the hood and some eye candy.

I hope linux will also think more on touch our multi touch in there roadmaps, it will be the future also web based applications will be.

Actually, X11R7.5 (the next release) is scheduled to to come with MPX support, which will enable these kinds of things to be done. In the mean time (before actually you get a screen like that) you'll be able to have a mouse pointer for each mouse you have plugged in. That's going to be so much fun!