neverendingo wrote:Ok, then please simply explain, what is wrong with it. But please look into this forum first if there isn't a thread where these things aren't already discussed or solved. Just be aware that many developers are around here, and many points were already cleared or discussed. Input is of course always welcome.

OMG, this isn't my first visit here, you know...

Konqueror, man. Konqueror used to be a thing of beauty. Anything that KDE could do was built into Konqueror. I can run Konqueor 3.5 with a file manager like fluxbox, and it retains all of the functionality of KDE. I can mount an added hard drive, or empty the trash bin, or access GUI application menus. It's all in one application that can turn a file manager into a full-fledged fully customized desktop environment. There is no mounting of removable media in Konqueror 4, and as far as I can see, no filter bar for sorting through items. I search and search and search until I am almost in tears. Once I think I found a filter bar that sorted files according to extension, and that seemed like a cruel joke.

I know I'm overreacting, but I can't help it. I am passionate about Konqueror, the way some people are passionate about a particular make of automobile. In the end, I'll give in, and all that will be lost is just a little bit of elegance. Instead of building my custom desktop around Konqueror, Dolphin will share the load. Eventually, I'll forget all about it.

Here you go : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php? ... light=kde3
And it was announced early in intrepid development that it would only support KDE4

blackbelt_jones,

I agree with you that that it sucks that you can't have the latest version of your operating system with KDE 3.5, and you are being pushed into using KDE 4 when it does not yet fully meet your needs. I personally prefer KDE 3.5 at the moment, and luckily for me, the Gentoo devs are not planning to phase out the 3-series any time soon (In fact, they put a lot of work into letting users have both on the same system).

However, I think you got a so much negative response in this thread because you posted your rant on the KDE forums when your problem is not with KDE but with Kubuntu.

Maybe "The apokolypse comes early for Kubuntu!" would have been an appropriate title, since there will never be "apokolypse" for KDE - KDE plans to patch and support KDE 3 for years to support corporate customers. By the time KDE 3 is actually dropped, no one will really care.

So I think you posted this to the wrong forum - if you wanted to show off your displeasure with your distro's decision to exclude KDE 3, you should have posted it on your distro's forum. Maybe then you could initiate a Kubuntu "apokolypse" with a massive migration of unhappy KDE 3 users to distributions that fulfill their need. Or maybe you could convince them to re-add the KDE 3 repositories.

Here, on KDE forums, you can ask for help with KDE features that don't really work for you, or for information on when they will be fixed.

However, showing off your displeasure with some distro's decision here, is like calling up Toyota and yelling at them because your local car dealer does not sell any Civics.

So, if you want help with KDE4, start a new thread here. If you want KDE 3, it's time to switch to a better distro.

I Agree with Alec and want to point a few points too.
konqueror continues to be all that software that it was on 3.5 , some of the features are just missing because they are not ported yet (but will be, at least the good ones).
the removal of a flash driva can be done right clicking the drive and unmounting it, and you can also umount from the new device notifier.
another thing, the khtml used on konqueror 4.1 is vastly improved over the 3.5 séries and... boy, i'm hungry ._.

I really dunno why there isn't an optional kde3 ubuntu repo, that would be a really win/win solution.
In archlinux there are plethoria of kde repos (svn, kdemod, kdemod3, kde3) and this kind of distributing package maintenance efforts works great.

Dryfit wrote:Here you go : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php? ... light=kde3

If you look closely, you'll see that I'm in that thread. I don't need some joker telling me what I already know.

And it was announced early in intrepid development that it would only support KDE4

Which means that developers knew about it, and mere users can pound salt.

This could turn out to be a problem with free software, and I hope that this can be taken constructively. Free software is developer driven, which sometimes makes mere users feel like second-class citizens. If I complain to Microsoft about my OS, they're going to give me the runaround, but at least they're not going to tell me it's my fault for not learning C++. It's right and proper that developers are forward looking and innovative, but most users are practical and drawn to the familiar.

Anyway, don't mind me. I appear to have switched to gnome. I always start with Ubuntu and install KDE because of peculiarities with the Kubuntu-Desktop that I disklike (no "go" button for Konqueror" So I have gnome running, and I have installed KDE but I can't bring myself to start it up, and I can't bring myself to go back to Hardy. So I'm just using gnome, and it's not that bad.

Maki wrote:I really dunno why there isn't an optional kde3 ubuntu repo, that would be a really win/win solution.
In archlinux there are plethoria of kde repos (svn, kdemod, kdemod3, kde3) and this kind of distributing package maintenance efforts works great.

Well, theoretically, if Ubuntu would have stayed with binary compatibility with Debian, you could add a Lenny or Sid repository and use that, without the need for any backports.

You know one of the reasons why I'm so annoyed by this is that I've been slogging thorough a one of those big fat Ubuntu books, page by page. With all these dozens of distros, is there just one that is willing to commit to KDE3, so I won't get burned like this again? And how would I go about finding such a distro?

blackbelt_jones wrote:You know one of the reasons why I'm so annoyed by this is that I've been slogging thorough a one of those big fat Ubuntu books, page by page. With all these dozens of distros, is there just one that is willing to commit to KDE3, so I won't get burned like this again? And how would I go about finding such a distro?

One of the more conservative distros would be ideal for you, like Debian or Slackware. I don't use them, though, so I don't know exactly how long they will support KDE 3.5, but I do know that it will be the only (official) KDE desktop in the next Debian release (Lenny).

You may also consider using FreeBSD, which currently has both 3.5 and 4.1 in their ports tree. And by the looks of things, the 3.5 ports aren't going anywhere anytime soon. (Sorry, I don't have an exact date... yet.)

JontheEchinda wrote:Dude, Hardy will be supported for another year, by which time every distro will have switched to KDE4. (Note that Kubuntu 8.04 isn't LTS, so it won't be until April 2011)

What I've been told is that there's no really problem because support naturally follows users. If people use it, it will be supported. Aseigo told me that. I've been telling all my KDE3 user friends to chill. If you're telling me that all distros dropping KDE3 is a foregone conclusion no matter who uses what, don't expect it to make me less angry.[hr]

jrick wrote:

blackbelt_jones wrote:You know one of the reasons why I'm so annoyed by this is that I've been slogging thorough a one of those big fat Ubuntu books, page by page. With all these dozens of distros, is there just one that is willing to commit to KDE3, so I won't get burned like this again? And how would I go about finding such a distro?

One of the more conservative distros would be ideal for you, like Debian or Slackware. I don't use them, though, so I don't know exactly how long they will support KDE 3.5, but I do know that it will be the only (official) KDE desktop in the next Debian release (Lenny).

You may also consider using FreeBSD, which currently has both 3.5 and 4.1 in their ports tree. And by the looks of things, the 3.5 ports aren't going anywhere anytime soon. (Sorry, I don't have an exact date... yet.)

Well, that's pretty helpful, thanks. Sooner or later, I'm just gonna have to eat it.[hr]
I know I'm being a **** about this, but I simply can't help it. It hurts me more than it hurts you.

neverendingo wrote:Ok, let me first clear something. Sure, this forum is forum is for opinions. But everybody should have read and behave like described in the Code of Conduct. What is missing here, are arguments.
Maybe you are unhappy with KDE4 at the moment, because it doesn't fit your needs. Okay, KDE3 is still out there. But do you really think KDE4 will now stay like it is? I don't hope so.
Other than that i see you are blaming Kubuntu for their decision. Well, besides Hardy there are many distros out there which ship KDE3. All fully functional.
So, this thread is not helpful nor constructive nor respectful. Many work was (and still is) put into KDE4, so calling it an apokolypse, only because kubuntu dropped KDE3 support, is all, but not respectful.
I hope there will come something better.

I was very upset when I came here, but I refrained from personal attacks, and wasn't directly critical of KDE4. KDE4 isn't the problem. I love KDE3, but KDE has moved KDE3 into a maintanance mode, and that's entirely appropriate, and all I could ask.

I'm suspicious of some of the rhetoric I'm seeing in here. I think this whole business of "a useful comment" is being used to turn off people you don't want to listen to. (I'm not necessarily thinking of you , neverendingo) When people share their experience, good or bad, it's not "respectful" to judge their experience valid or invalid based on "useful" it is. Everybody's experience is valid, and everybody's experience is useful if you listen.
This is just one of those times when it really sucks that the world doesn't revolve around me. We all have times like this. It's very frustrating and disheartening for me, and I feel like I need to talk about it, even though I don't have anything useful to say about it. I don't blame KDE. I don't blame Ubuntu. I mean, clearly they're morons, but it's not their fault that they're morons, right?

Why does pro-KDE3 have to mean anti-KDE4? I think KDE3 is the highest expression of the classic desktop as it's existed all these years, but it's pretty much established, and if the developers kept working on it, they'd only ruin it, and it would be a waste of their talents. They're coming up with some great new ideas, but why are we throwing out the baby with the bathwater? A fork seems like a huge waste of effort, but it may be the only way KDE3 can once again have the legitimacy its user base would deserve.

I wonder if you perhaps might be asking the wrong question?

Consider the word «desktop». Your desktop is a place where you may or may not orgaize your bills, loveletters, naughty pictures an so on.

With kde4 you are very free to embark on this organizing mission. You may or may not throw things in the dust bin. You may or may not feature your mother in law as a desktop background. You may or may not present last day's heartrate to your rednosed football trainer. You may or may not find a pair of great boobs on the Internet.

The point is, this is UP TO YOU!

blackbelt_jones wrote:I was very upset when I came here, but I refrained from personal attacks, and wasn't directly critical of KDE4. KDE4 isn't the problem. I love KDE3, but KDE has moved KDE3 into a maintanance mode, and that's entirely appropriate, and all I could ask.

I'm suspicious of some of the rhetoric I'm seeing in here. I think this whole business of "a useful comment" is being used to turn off people you don't want to listen to. (I'm not necessarily thinking of you , neverendingo) When people share their experience, good or bad, it's not "respectful" to judge their experience valid or invalid based on "useful" it is. Everybody's experience is valid, and everybody's experience is useful if you listen.

It's not that you share your experience, it's how you share it. Your post was ok, but your title was overboard. "The apokolypse comes early!", is a very strong phrase and some people may be offended by that, especially if you mockingly put a K into the word apocalypse. Yes, sometimes you may need to vent, but the way you put the title sounds like you're blaming KDE for the fact that some distros are forcing you out of the 3-series.

blackbelt_jones wrote:Why does pro-KDE3 have to mean anti-KDE4? I think KDE3 is the highest expression of the classic desktop as it's existed all these years, but it's pretty much established, and if the developers kept working on it, they'd only ruin it, and it would be a waste of their talents. They're coming up with some great new ideas, but why are we throwing out the baby with the bathwater? A fork seems like a huge waste of effort, but it may be the only way KDE3 can once again have the legitimacy its user base would deserve.

I have not not seen anywhere here where anyone said you should use KDE4 and not KDE 3. If you don't like KDE4, you are encouraged to go back to KDE 3. I tried a beta of KDE 4.0, I didn't like it, so I stayed with KDE 3. KDE 4.1 came out, and I still use KDE 3. If it turns out that KDE 4.2 is not good enough for me, I'll stay with KDE 3 for yet another 6 months.

Unfortunately, if you can't do that because your distro doesn't give you a choice, there is little we can help you with other than to suggest that you use different distro, or try to help you to get KDE4 to work more like the way you want.

Alec wrote:blackbelt_jones,

I agree with you that that it sucks that you can't have the latest version of your operating system with KDE 3.5, and you are being pushed into using KDE 4 when it does not yet fully meet your needs. I personally prefer KDE 3.5 at the moment, and luckily for me, the Gentoo devs are not planning to phase out the 3-series any time soon (In fact, they put a lot of work into letting users have both on the same system).

However, I think you got a so much negative response in this thread because you posted your rant on the KDE forums when your problem is not with KDE but with Kubuntu.

Maybe "The apokolypse comes early for Kubuntu!" would have been an appropriate title, since there will never be "apokolypse" for KDE - KDE plans to patch and support KDE 3 for years to support corporate customers. By the time KDE 3 is actually dropped, no one will really care.

So I think you posted this to the wrong forum - if you wanted to show off your displeasure with your distro's decision to exclude KDE 3, you should have posted it on your distro's forum. Maybe then you could initiate a Kubuntu "apokolypse" with a massive migration of unhappy KDE 3 users to distributions that fulfill their need. Or maybe you could convince them to re-add the KDE 3 repositories.

Here, on KDE forums, you can ask for help with KDE features that don't really work for you, or for information on when they will be fixed.

However, showing off your displeasure with some distro's decision here, is like calling up Toyota and yelling at them because your local car dealer does not sell any Civics.

So, if you want help with KDE4, start a new thread here. If you want KDE 3, it's time to switch to a better distro.

Alec, thanks for being sympathtic. That really makes me feel better.

And thank you too, Tomaz. I'm not fond of Plasma, but that doesn't really affect me. I use fluxbox to manage KDE applications, and Konqueror is the lynchpin of the desktop that I've been creating for myself. (Custom menus, dozens of custom keybindings). If I go back to Hardy, maybe by the time Hardy runs out Konqueror 4 will be fully functional. Problem solved.

So you see neverindingo, it turned out that just coming in here and sharing my experience was useful.

In my despair, I did try going back to gnome after several years. I suppose this is not respectful, but Gnome sucks. No I mean it literally sucks. Yuck.[hr]
Once again, sorry about being such a ****. The weekend before a presidential election, I'm always kind of emotionally raw. Especially when the side that I'm supporting seems to be winning.

You could use Mepis it's debian based and also use some ubuntu sources. It still use KDE3 and it will be supported till debian drops that support.

But what i want to now why you don't want to use KDE 4 and jump to Gnome, because gnome is also totally different then KDE and has even less options then KDE4.

Make a list what your missing in KDE4 and what are your suggestions to solve that. I'm going to drop also kubuntu because they are making little changes i need and thinking more in the gnome way, ( it maybe confusing for the user so take it out, that is not the KDE way ). Edit : i stand correct with this, the reason of taking out activities was that it was to buggy, didn't know that one.

BTW i looked very close but i can't find you in that thread, where do you hide?