I just installed Kubuntu 8.10 with KDE 4.1.2, and have some comments on its overall use.

I originally posted it to the Kubuntu forum, and will post it here too to cover the KDE aspects. Some of these behaviours may be specific to Kubuntu, but in general I hope the KDE team can work through their side. [side note: as Linux grows, I keep sensing the inevitable emergence of the "not my problem" mindset to questions. I would actually prefer the "you need to talk to" or "let me find out" mindset, which is much more helpful.]

Overall, I think KDE4 works well enough, but there are a few things that can really bug me.

1) the taskbar:

a) no option to control it other than three check boxes. What happened to the ability to actually size the task boxes?

b) switching desktops reorders all of the windows. What's up with that? I was ok with this behaviour in 8.04, since it was the first version. Does nobody at KDE switch desktops? I open about 10-15 windows per desktop when I am working, and switch frequently. with the size of the text and the size of the task boxes, the reordering literally makes me search for the proper window for up to 15 seconds each time. I remember where each one is [previously they could be ordered alphabetically or by starting position I think] based on when I open it, and now I can't. Very disconcerting and inefficient.

2) widgets.

Overall I like the idea of widgets, but the options are still not fully useful.

a) clock. I like analog clocks. I want to put one on the desktop, but windows cover it. I previously asked for an option to make it stay on top, but that doesn't look too imminent. Other widgets have that option - along with "opacity," but not the clock. Why? I'm thinking that widget controls are simple functions [the black option box for example is consistent across all widgets, along with the icons and such - why not everything? but I don't know much about it...]

b) system tray. with the reordering of the taskbar, I decided to remove the system tray from the taskbar to make more room. I then created a system tray widget on the desktop. This is very useful. However, getting the actual system tasks into the system tray is like herding cats. Literally. Try it. The system icons are sometimes not there at all, and every time the system tray widget is moved, the icons have a mind of their own. I pretty much never have them in the tray if they actually decide to show up.

3) Konqueror.

Konqueror still has issues with opening new windows automatically. I have the "open folders in new windows" checked, but it doesn't work - ever. I can manually create them fine, but it is more clicks. Not a deal breaker, but again - inefficient, especially since they have the option. If there wasn't the option, it wouldn't bother me as much, but if they have the option, it should be working.

Don't read this as a completely negative review. I think there are very many good things that are happening, and the progress seems to be accelerating - but don't leave the users [or usability] behind.

I'd like to add my feedback here, too. Note that I can't tell, which part is due the Kubuntu team and which one is due to the KDE team.

The original discussion can be found here.

• Why can't I simply zip/encrypt files in my file-manager (here dolphin or konqueror) out of the box? Where do I have to activate the magic button (the discussion about that and the "solution" is very interesting to read)?
• Linux is all about choice (at least you can hear that as an argument), right? Why are they not giving the user this choice in an easy way? Don't like Dolphin? Just set your new file manager in the settings (no terminal, no config file editing) and let the system handle the change (natively for EVERY task, no hard-coded-still-using-the-previous-file-manager). In my opinion the user is still not enough in the focus.
• I'm not able to change the order in the menu, doesn't matter whether you have the new or the classic menu, you can change it in the editor, but it has no effect.
• My keyboard-shortcuts were overwritten after the upgrade, another beautiful annoyance.

Don't take my tone/anger too serious. I'm a KDE user and I'm writing here because I care, but at the same time I'm just a user and that's where the emotionally tone kicks in.

Cheers,
Squirrel

squirrel wrote:I'd like to add my feedback here, too. Note that I can't tell, which part is due the Kubuntu team and which one is due to the KDE team.

The original discussion can be found here.

• Why can't I simply zip/encrypt files in my file-manager (here dolphin or konqueror) out of the box? Where do I have to activate the magic button (the discussion about that and the "solution" is very interesting to read)?
• Linux is all about choice (at least you can hear that as an argument), right? Why are they not giving the user this choice in an easy way? Don't like Dolphin? Just set your new file manager in the settings (no terminal, no config file editing) and let the system handle the change (natively for EVERY task, no hard-coded-still-using-the-previous-file-manager). In my opinion the user is still not enough in the focus.
  

-)

Cheers,
Squirrel

• It will be in KDE 4.2 till that time you could use http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Ex ... tent=84206 and if you also missing the service menus use http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/KD ... tent=80131
  
• You can change it by right click on folder and then change application order to konqueror. You also could do that in KDE3

Actually I am a gnome user, but was tempted to try kUbuntu 8.10, because of some new features and would like to share my experience too.

The Bad:

1. I couldn't find a way to make Dolphin open desktop folders in new tabs instead of new windows;
2. I couldn't find a way to make it open files and folders after clicking twice instead of once (this feature was present in KDE3);
3. Kwin effects are horribly SLOW (with compiz fusion I get ~600 fps & with kwin effects mere 70 fps (YES, 70 fps!));
4. In this KDE4 version it seems to be forbidden to change the size of the sidepanel icons (places, tree view) (hopefully this will be fixed in KDE 4.2);
5. Currently only few KDE3 programs are designed to work with KDE4;
6. some settings are still missing;
7. like in all KDE versions menus are cluttered, every program uses their own menu structure, no standardization. If you want to find some setting you have to know that it definitely should be somewhere otherwise you won't notice it;
8. No way to preview video & audio files;
9. When rearranging horizontal panels in programs (ie konqueror) you can only put one below another and not other way around. So, if you want to put one panel above the others you have to drag other panels below the one you want to put on top;
10. Dolphin managed to forget the sidepanel (Places) I had chosen;
11. KDE4 standard theme is not completely compatible with gtk programs. The tab close buttons in gtk programs becomes huge;
12. You can't enlarge one icon without enlarging the others like in nautilus (that's quite handy for folders or program icons that you use most often);
13. I don't know if it's compiz bug or KDE (most probably compiz) but when starting compiz with KDE I get black screen fo a second or so (in gnome it likes just to freeze the screen);
14. It seems that some applets of the main KDE panel are still missing.

The Good:

1. KDE4 seems to be a lot more stable this time;
2. KDE4 theme and icons look like 100 times better than in KDE3;
3. Unlike gnome nautilus both konqueror and Dolphin have split view (Feature request in gnome bug tracker is like more than 3 years old -> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=309646 );
4. You can change icons for any file, folder or program. Also you can change icons of the folders in "Places" or "Bookmarks" sidepanel (nautilus needs to be patched for that);
5. With an easy hack ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhYinDOKbE8 ) you can use compiz wallpaper plugin and have different wallpapers in different workspaces without loosing the icons (again you need to patch nautilus to have that in gnome);
6. No more ugly arrows on the main KDE menu and some other menus;
7. KDE4 menu seems to load pretty fast and I liked the quick search it has;
8. The splash scrren when KDe is loding looks really nice;
9. Imho file taging is a really nice idea too;
10. I liked Dolphin more than konqueror;
11. I really liked the new program launcher you get after clicking ALT+F2;
12. No more dirty hacks to get true transparency in konsole;

Conclusion: KDE4 has some really nice features, but it might be really worth switching only after the 4.2 release or kubuntu 9.04 release.

hakim wrote:Actually I am a gnome user, but was tempted to try kUbuntu 8.10, because of some new features and would like to share my experience too.

The Bad:

1. I couldn't find a way to make it open files and folders after clicking twice instead of once (this feature was present in KDE3);
2. Currently only few KDE3 programs are designed to work with KDE4;
3. KDE4 standard theme is not completely compatible with gtk programs. The tab close buttons in gtk programs becomes huge;

In Systemsettings you can change the behaviour of clicking.

KDE3 Programs wont look like KDE4 because of the different QT versions unless there will be a wrapper someday.

Its actually not the fault of KDE. They are doing a great job with gtk-qt-engine.

PeperJohnny wrote:KDE3 Programs wont look like KDE4 because of the different QT versions unless there will be a wrapper someday.

...or programs will be updated.

Its actually not the fault of KDE. They are doing a great job with gtk-qt-engine.

Whose is it then?

No one is really guilty about that. Im not very well informed but i think that gtk-qt-engine is only developed by KDE devs. If Gnome devs would help, all Linux users could become happy about their design.

hakim wrote:Kwin effects are horribly SLOW (with compiz fusion I get ~600 fps & with kwin effects mere 70 fps (YES, 70 fps!));

Nvidia?

In this KDE4 version it seems to be forbidden to change the size of the sidepanel icons (places, tree view) (hopefully this will be fixed in KDE 4.2);

Do you really need to change the size? The icons are resized automatically depending on the space available.

I haven't tried the newest Kubuntu release yet, but it sounds like it isn't quite usable for me yet. I was planning to buy a Netbook and play with KDE4, but I guess I'll wait for the 4.2 release. Hope more Netbook models will be available at that time too.

Hans wrote:

hakim wrote:Kwin effects are horribly SLOW (with compiz fusion I get ~600 fps & with kwin effects mere 70 fps (YES, 70 fps!));

Nvidia?

Yup.

In this KDE4 version it seems to be forbidden to change the size of the sidepanel icons (places, tree view) (hopefully this will be fixed in KDE 4.2);

Do you really need to change the size? The icons are resized automatically depending on the space available.

Well, at least for me the icons look really small. I can change their size in gnome. Why shouldn't I be able to do that in KDE which supposed to be highly configurable...

hakim wrote:

Hans wrote:Nvidia?

Yup.

Known problem. Unfortunately. More information here.

hakim wrote:Well, at least for me the icons look really small. I can change their size in gnome. Why shouldn't I be able to do that in KDE which supposed to be highly configurable...

Try to increase the width of the panel.

I think items with long names made the icons smaller, but that doesn't seem to be the case in trunk. In other words, if you have this problem it's going to be fixed in the next version. A temporary fix is to shorten the name or hide the item.

Hans wrote:

hakim wrote:

Hans wrote:Nvidia?

Yup.

Known problem. Unfortunately. More information here.

nvidia says it should be fixed with their latest drivers.

hakim wrote:Well, at least for me the icons look really small. I can change their size in gnome. Why shouldn't I be able to do that in KDE which supposed to be highly configurable...

Try to increase the width of the panel.
I think items with long names made the icons smaller, but that doesn't seem to be the case in trunk. In other words, if you have this problem it's going to be fixed in the next version. A temporary fix is to shorten the name or hide the item.

Thanks for info.

suplero wrote:
What happened to the ability to actually size the task boxes?

Also, what happened to the ability to group tasks by application?

I then created a system tray widget on the desktop. This is very useful.

Sounds worth trying...

However, getting the actual system tasks into the system tray is like herding cats. Literally. Try it. The system icons are sometimes not there at all, and every time the system tray widget is moved, the icons have a mind of their own. I pretty much never have them in the tray if they actually decide to show up.

...or maybe not.

What irks me most is that Kubuntu doesn't have support for activities yet-- one of the things I was looking forward to most, and in fact what I upgraded for. Not that I regret having upgraded (though I hate the way krunner looks, I'd just as soon have the old minicli back; I hope someone thinks of giving it an option not to open the dropdown window with all those useless distracting icons, and having it remember history, confound it).

Don't read this as a completely negative review. I think there are very many good things that are happening, and the progress seems to be accelerating - but don't leave the users [or usability] behind.

Amen, brother.

irina_r wrote:Also, what happened to the ability to group tasks by application?

Not present in 4.1.x, going to be in 4.2. There are also different grouping strategies AFAIK.

have a mind of their own. I pretty much never have them in the tray if they actually decide to show up.

...or maybe not.

Systray had a large number of problems, most of them fixed in trunk (there is an all-new system tray implementation).

krunner looks, I'd just as soon have the old minicli back; I hope someone thinks of giving it an option not to open the dropdown window with

IIRC, on kde-look you may find a plasmoid that just executes a command, like the old minicli.

irina_r wrote:What irks me most is that Kubuntu doesn't have support for activities yet-- one of the things I was looking forward to most, and in fact what I upgraded for.

au contraire madam, it was the best/pragmatic thing introduced by kubuntu dev for kde4.1, we all know managing activities in kde4.1 is ... not optimal, no need to scary new users with zoom out/in.

But how can bugs related to activities be fixed if no one knows that they ever exist?