cbimerrow wrote:

mat69 wrote:It simply takes time to have the same or close functionality! It has nothing to do with sanity but your incapability to understand that a rewrite takes time and that there still is 3.5.X available.

Except that this wasn't originally put forth as a "we'll get to it eventually" issue, it was put forth as "Your old BAD way of doing things is no longer allowed. You will use the new GOOD way and LIKE it, because we said so" issue. That was the response people like myself received (even from one of the primary devs!) when inquiring about it, and so we responded in kind. It's now being fixed in 4.2, and I'm happy for that.

Hmm maybe my memory does not serve me that well but I do not remember it the way you write about it. I guess you are talking about aseigo, but IIRC he often stated that certain aspects are not on top of his priority list and that anyone could jump in to make these happen (like the traditional menu). What I also remember is that some posts on his blog were very trollish -- considering that KDE is not something you pay for -- and flamish, so sometimes the answers were not that friendly anymore. Especially when people jump in, obviously only reading the headline ("no more desktop icons in 4.1"), and start commenting.

Hans wrote:I don't understand why you still insist that Folderview wouldn't be helpful.

I didn't say "wouldn't be helpful," I said "was not helpful". Obviously, yes, in 4.2 it will be helpful.

In 4.1.1, however, it didn't display the full names of the icons within it, did not allow us to change their positions, etc.[hr]

SteveMcQwark wrote:Dragging and dropping, the most common method for putting shortcuts (launchers) on the desktop, is still available.

I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Specifically the part about it being "the most common method for putting shortcuts on the desktop". Even in KDE 3.5, dragging and dropping an executable out of Konqueror does not create an application launcher, it creates a new "File Link," which isn't the same thing. You can't control anything regarding the environment of the executable, its command line parameters, etc. The same is true in KDE 4.1.1, it creates a completely different type of widget than is desired.

The idea of having file management features inside a box and not outside is so you can have multiple file areas, or no file areas at all, if you so desired.

Yeah, that's a great idea. Except that I didn't want to do file management on my desktop, I just wanted application shortcuts so that the users I was leaving the system with didn't have to open up terminals to kick off the scripts.

I do agree that the launcher (icon) widget should be at the top of the "Add Widget" Dialogue.

Even if it was alphabetized, just having it there *period* would make sense.

Edit: What I don't understand is why, when you found it difficult to figure out how to create a new shortcut in the context menu, you didn't immediately resort to dragging and dropping. I understand that, in principle, the feature you want should be there, but why didn't you just try dragging and dropping?

Because, as I explained earlier, dragging and dropping in KDE 3.5.x did NOT give me what I wanted. And it's still true in 4.1.1. Later I discovered I could create a shortcut in a File Manager, then drag and drop THAT to the desktop and get what I wanted, but even then it took a while to figure out the weird behavior (like why every shortcut I dragged to the desktop had a blank name).

It would have saved a lot of stress and frustration, and then this thread would have been more constructive in nature.

How would it have made this thread more constructive in nature?

It also happens to be one of the most base-level intuitive features to exist in a UI.

And does not accomplish what I was trying to do.

its often easier on yourself just to try a different approach and figure out why your method didn't work later.

Believe me, we tried everything we could think of at the time, tempered with prior experiences with KDE. Hindsight is 20/20, and things are much less clear to someone thrown into a situation with no prior knowledge and deadlines to meet. And, as I pointed out, a casual Google search will show that I'm far from the only person who's had a problem with this, so dismissing it with "Well you should have just X..." is probably not the right approach.[hr]

mat69 wrote:Hmm maybe my memory does not serve me that well but I do not remember it the way you write about it.

There's plenty of examples of that attitude in this very thread, especially towards the beginning. Only later when others came into the thread and stated that you'd be able to use Folderview as your default containment in 4.2 did the tone start to change.

I guess you are talking about aseigo, but IIRC he often stated that certain aspects are not on top of his priority list and that anyone could jump in to make these happen (like the traditional menu). What I also remember is that some posts on his blog were very trollish -- considering that KDE is not something you pay for -- and flamish, so sometimes the answers were not that friendly anymore. Especially when people jump in, obviously only reading the headline ("no more desktop icons in 4.1"), and start commenting.

And I've said before, he had a right to be snarky about how people were acting on his own personal blog. He's not their employee, so he doesn't have to take **** from them. But when people would ask about why this was done, THAT'S where they would get sent! Sending already peeved users to read a flamewar where they're essentially told that they're uncouth slobs for wanting their desktop to behave the way they expect it to is just BAD.

Edit: Also, aseigo's attitude of "Well I did user studies so I know how people REALLY use their computers, so how you say YOU use your computer is irrelevant, because I'm the expert and you're not." is pretty insulting and completely uncalled for, regardless of whether people were trolling his blog.

mfearby wrote:...(since even KDE 3.5.x doesn't allow icons to snap to a grid, I'm used to manually lining them up)...

Aligning to Grid has been working for me for as long as I can remember (I've been using KDE since 0.99). Sometimes it was buggy, and sometimes it was hard to find, but it was always there. It's only KDE 4 where that functionality disappeared.

Creating a desktop shortcut was around LONG before Linux. It was available in both Windows 95 and OS/2 (circa 1980). I am not an Apple guru, but I would be surprised if they didn't have one too.

Suggesting that the "new" way is better at the cost of removing a tried & true 40+ year old way known to MILLIONS of users, is the epitome of hubris.
As previously stated in this forum, Terminal is still here. If you think the old ways are "bad", get rid of ALL of them and stop calling it Linux.

Microsoft learned a lesson when they removed the "start" menu. Do you REALLY want to go down that same path? What makes Linux great is that it has built on old mechanisms and improved them.

Erm, you do realize you answer a thread that was last commented on in November 2008? Please check the date of the threads before you answer things long gone...