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Standalone versions of KDE programs
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Since YIM no longer works in Pidgin for over a month and I prefer avoiding GTK on KDE, I decided to switch to Kopete today. The reason I avoided it is that I typically try to avoid KDE programs for activities I do systematically, rather than just system components. Mostly because I know that if for any reason I must switch to a Windows or Gnome / Xfce machine, I won't be able to use the program and its data there. KDE programs only come and work with KDE... unless the user is a good programmer or hacker.
This made me wonder something: Why is KDE a suite where all programs that it's distributed with depend on KDE as an entity? Why couldn't KDE simply be a package of different software, each with their own dependencies like Linux software in general? In other words, why "if I want to install Amarok I need to have all of KDE installed" rather than "if I want to install Amarok I only need libqt and other dependencies that Amarok individually requires"? In that aspect, important KDE programs could also be downloaded and installed individually. If someone wanted Kopete on their Windows machine, they could simply download kopete_setup.exe and install it like the everyday program. If someone wanted Kate on a Gnome machine, they install only its package and if the QT libraries are present it works. If there's any part of the KDE framework that's needed, you install those specific packages only (Linux) or they're included in the setup (Windows). Of course there are probably some KDE components which couldn't be made to work without KDE... like standalone Plasma Desktop or Kwin, which I imagine would be pretty weird. Still, maybe having some KDE programs be independent is possible to some extent. I've seen a lot of threads where people want to take Amarok / Kopete / Konversation / etc and use them on any platform and environment, and personally I think good programs like them should exist as standalone software too. What do you think? Why wasn't this done yet, and is it a good or a bad idea? Any chance KDE might move toward such an approach anytime? |
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You can use KDE programs in any other desktop environment, provided you have the libraries installed. It has been like this... forever. Why do you think it's not possible?
If people still confuse "<program> needs KDE" with the correct "<program> needs KDE *libraries*", that's another story (Gnome programs requires their libraries too).
tosky, proud to be a member of KDE forums since 2008-Oct.
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In that case I misunderstood some of what I read... or people who posted some articles have. Although standalone versions for Windows / non-KDE Linux aren't available for download officially, and to get Amarok / Kopete / etc everyone reported needing the full KDE framework. Kopete's website for example explicitly states "you need KDE installed to run this program", even if it mentions you can download the Kopete package alone. Perhaps the documentation and packaging can be tweaked and cleaned up a bit to make this a bit more certain. |
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This is one of the main reasons why there was a change in KDE branding in 2009, see http://dot.kde.org/2009/11/24/repositioning-kde-brand for more information. Basically "KDE" should refer to the community, not particular software. KDE software will depend on the KDE Platform (to become Frameworks), but there is absolutely no need to have a KDE Plasma workspace installed just to run a KDE application. It is perfectly fine to run other non-KDE applications in a KDE Plasma workspace, and similarly there is no problem running KDE applications in a non-KDE workspace (such as GNOME Shell and Xfce, as well as other operating systems like Windows).
Of course, people are stubborn to change, so many still refer to "KDE" for the big collection of libraries, applications, and workspaces that get released together. With Frameworks 5 the KDE libraries will be further modularized so that you only need to install the dependencies you actually need for a particular application.
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Nice... that is good to know. In that case it's probably more of an understanding as well as a distribution problem. The official page for Kopete which I linked earlier for example is hosted on the KDE website... yet even it hints that you need KDE to run Kopete. And if you search for "Kopete on Windows" or "Kopete on Gnome", you find threads saying you need KDE to run it, and tutorials on how to get KDE working on Windows so those specific applications can be used. At least I did... google tends to give different results for people at times. But at least I know better now. I was starting to think that all programs included in KDE are rather modules / plugins of the KDE framework and can't run without it. If each program can run on its own and is treated like an application rather than just a plugin, it feels more motivating and certain to use applications that come with KDE 
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Forgive me for resurrecting this thread but my question feels relevant.
I run Xubuntu as I prefer Xfce to KDE (sorry guys) but I think that Kate is the best of breed text editor on any platform. When I try to install it, I get a huge list of dependencies most of which I can't imagine being to do with text editing so I tend to make do with an inferior editor.
Are you saying that with the KDE Framework 5 this will no longer be the case? If so, then it is something to look forward to. |
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Woah... that is indeed quite a list. Totally proves my concern that at least for KDE4, any KDE program requires nearly every other KDE package. I'm also curious for the answer to your question too, and if KDE5 fixes this. |
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So with a bit of digging, I have partially answered my own question:
Much improved although I'm uncertain why phonon (a multimedia, multi-platform sound framework) is needed. My finger is hovering over the Y key even now... I chickened out. It's not officially released yet. I went for the weekly build which is supposedly usable. |
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Phonon is used for audio notifications, which all KDE applications (including Kate) include support for.
KDE Sysadmin
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I read this first thing this morning and I thought "What? What? Why the heck* would a text editor need to know when I've finished listening to an album?" I was building up a good head of righteous steam and then I had a cup of coffee and realised that it is probably audible notifications for the visually impaired. So thanks for getting my heart pumping before I'd even had my morning caffeine
 * I don't think I'd be allowed to say what I replaced with heck. |
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