Hi everybody. I'm a long time KDE user, and a first time poster. Let me first of all start by saying that I do love KDE and have been using it for years as my primary desktop environment. That being said, I do have some grievances about my transition from KDE 3.5 to KDE 4.x.

I didn't use the initial release, but opted to wait until Kubuntu provided an integrated download, which was at the beginning of 8.04. I thought by doing this, I would miss some of the inevitable bugs and glitches that are present in any major piece of new software, especially something as complex as an entire desktop environment.

So, I downloaded and installed the new Ubuntu with the shiny new KDE 4.0. At first I loved it; it got rid of all the clutter on my desktop, Dolphin was almost a godsend (more on this later), and it looked like it just worked. So you can understand my frustration a few days later when I couldn't use my computer graphically at all. Moving the mouse across the screen took minutes. Closing applications had no effect. I could access the shell directly with no problems, but something as trivial as connecting via SSH proved laggy. Eventually I discovered that by some power that I am still not aware, Plasma decided to take over 50% of my CPU at idle, and nearly 100% of my RAM. Granted, my machine isn't new by today's standards; it is a early generation P4 3.0GHz, 1GB DDR2 memory and an ATI Radeon 8600 graphics card. More than enough to run KDE 3.5, so I didn't imagine it would have this much trouble with newer software. It appears to do so. No matter, I thought, I'll just have to get used to restarting X every couple days when things slow down to keep everything running smooth until I get a new rig.

There were other things that the initial release was missing, such as tabs in Dolphin (thankfully, that's been resolved), and many KDE apps in the 4.x form, like Amarok. I know most of these other KDE apps have a different development team and it'd probably be really hard to get everybody together to make the release, but big apps like Amarok really should have been pushed hard.

The things I did enjoy about the initial release was the K-Menu. It worked so wonderfully, allowing me instant access to my entire computer (I have so many hard drives), and quick search access to any program (not as many programs, but it's still a useful feature).

So I learned to cope with KDE 4.0, accepting the bugs and slowness as just part of the game we all play when adopting new technologies. When KDE 4.1 came down through my regularly scheduled updates, I was really hoping that some of these would be addressed. To my dismay, they were not, and what's worse is that some very valuable features were removed!

The very first thing I noticed in the new KDE 4.1 is in the K-Menu's Computer tab, under KDE 4.0, there used to be a list of all mounted volumes. It even had the mount point so it was easy to tell at a glance what volume was what. Yup, this is totally gone in KDE 4.1. The one feature I find the most useful and simple is the one feature that was totally removed. When asked why it was removed, I was simply told it was and that it wasn't coming back. Again, I moved on.

Dolphin was upgraded which meant tabs! Brilliant feature, and I was surprised it wasn't included in the initial release. But, I'm not a major software developer, so I wouldn't know the technical implications of implementing a feature like that in a new product. I have it now, so we're all good on that front. But alas, Dolphin still lacked several very important features.

Firstly, it seems like my mounted volume list has found its way into the Places panel of Dolphin. This is a decent place for it, however it's still missing something. I can right click and edit any other entry in that list (Home, Root, Trash, Network), except for the mounted volumes. The only thing I can do is hide and unmount. Furthermore, there are no fancy tooltips which tell me which drive I'm about to select. This is a major issue when there are 7 mounted volumes and growing. What's more is that they're not sorted in any apparent order to me, the user. They are probably sorted by UUID or another similar function, but I usually don't take the time necessary to memorize the UUID's of all my drives, and the order they would appear in. So, to find a specific drive, I have to browse the tree, which is something I've always resisted. Again, I moved on.

KDE 4 brought in a new selection scheme for files and folders. Single click to open them, or single click on the icon to do selections. It gets of the nasty need to hold down Shift or Ctrl to get the same task done. This works perfectly, except when it doesn't work at all. If I click too far down the icon, I have the unintended result of opening the file or folder, which further has the effect of wiping out my selection. This is frankly unacceptable.

Another problem I have is with my favourite text editor, Kate. Kate is wonderful because it has a built-in terminal (when enabled). This is just perfect for somebody who compiles LaTeX documents for school, and the ability to have multiple files open in the same session, and to have multiple sessions, is just as valuable for a web developer (forgive the term, it's just a phrase my boss applies to me. Rest assured, I'm just a code monkey for making quick and cheap websites).

I actually have 2 problems with Kate, both of which have existed since KDE 4.0. The first is when I already have a Kate window open, and am browsing around in my Dolphin and find another file that Kate handles, somehow a new session of Kate is opened. I don't consider this to be desired behaviour. Most programs would allow you to open new files by default in the current session, or open a new session if desired.

The second problem is the Open File dialog within Kate. I can only open one file at a time in a folder, or all of them. The fancy feature of selecting multiple files by selecting the "+" on the icon doesn't seem to have been translated into the latest version of Kate. So, if I have half dozen files to open, I need to come back a half dozen times to get them all. I thought one day that I might get around this by simple selecting the files I wanted by using the tried, tested and true method of "Ctrl + Click". Would you believe this doesn't work? Again, something that's been in UIs since the dawn of UIs is conspicuously missing here. So, I tried an alternate method that *had* to work: I selected all the files in the folder, then edited the Location bar to remove the files I didn't want. Success!! Or maybe not. As it turns out, editing the Location bar has no effect on what files Kate wants to open. It's like it's there just for show. I selected 6 files, removed 2 from the list, but all 6 still opened. Again, I moved on...

It took me a while to find out where the "Run" dialog went to in KDE 4. I think a feature change like that should have been more easily documented, or maybe I just wasn't looking in the right places. After I found the Alt+F2 shortcut, things got better. Until of course I found a problem. It turns out that the Alt+F2 seems to remember what commands I've typed, only for the current session. So if I restart X (as I have to frequently do), I lose all recently typed applications. It's a minor inconvenience, but an inconvenience nonetheless. Following along this line, there is at least one other application that I've seen that forgets basic user preferences. Whenever I highlight a URL somewhere, be it in a document or on a webpage, this annoying little popup comes up asking me what I want to do with it. What I want to do with it is what I always want to do when I select text: copy it! I don't know why it seems hell bent on asking me this all the time. I'd imagine that selecting the "Disable this popup" option would have the desired effect of terminating the application forever. But alas, it only banishes it for the current session. No matter what I do, it comes back, like the fabled cat.

My last set of gripes lay mostly around the basic management of my system. For instance, to add a user, I either have to add it by command line (not practical in all cases), or install a KDE 3 app to get the same functionality. I didn't make the move to KDE 4 just to have to use KDE 3 apps for basic functionality! There is also the matter of the Network Manager. This is an app I have heard all about, and how marvelous it's supposed to be. However, it doesn't seem to believe I have a NIC, which is odd since I always seem to be able to get to the internet. I believe the problem from this stems from the fact that I keep a static IP on my computer for various purposes. It might not recognize a static IP as being one it can manage.

Additionally, basic things that "just worked" on KDE 3.5 no longer work with KDE 4.x. I understand that there was a major code rewrite, but in the times where I can just plug new device in and have my system understand its function and let me use it, why can I no longer use the volume knob on my keyboard? I can use all other functions such as play and stop, but not the volume any more.

I suppose this ends, for now, my grievances on the new and shiny KDE 4. I have faith in this product, and I suppose things can't change unless the problems are brought to the attention of the developers and contributors who make this project what it is. I don't mean to sound **** or snobby, because I really am not. I do appreciate the work that's gone into this product, and I fully intend to keep using it. I'd just like to see some changes, or perhaps get some answers.

Also, if I've put this thread where it shouldn't be, feel free to move it (like I have a say in the matter). If people feel tempted to reply with such gems as "if you're so **** off about , why don't you submit a patch for it?", let's not. If I've addressed something here that's been done to death or already approved or rejected, don't assault me. I don't have the time or the will to read an entire forum to determine what unique complaints I can bring to the table.

This is my experience.

Thank you KDE.

I will not answer to any point. Some seems to be valid. Others seems to be distro specific ones.

You should post some of those as bugs on bugs.kde.org if they are not already there, to make the devs aware of them.

And about user adding: There is a KDE4 Version of KUser there.

The device name issue: Just give the devices a volume name that really helps. I gave all my usb harddisks and usb flash memory drives decribing names which are showing up in Dolphin and the device notifier applet. (would be good if KDE would allow to set those names by right click on a device)

Thanx, a good and objective review. As DanielW said, some of the issues are distro specific ones, especially when using Kubuntu. But I did talk to Martin from the KDE-Team and he told me that most of the features I really miss (for example shortcuts, Autohiding of the panel,...) will implemented in KDE 4.2. So, I really like KDE4 at the moment and looking forward to use this incredible DE for years.

Greez w.

I realize that some of my problems might be distro-specific, but I still just thought I'd take the time to get them all sorted out, that way I can start the task of finding those responsible with fixing them. It seems to me the core of my problems are KDE-specific, such as the inability to rename volumes and the network manager not working for static IPs, but I will certainly post in the Kubuntu forums regarding these bugs as well.

As for the future of KDE, I always intended on waiting for further releases. I know that software matures as it progresses; KDE 3.5 was a great example of it, and I know KDE 4 will eventually come to its own.

Thank you for your comments, and I will certainly look into posting bug reports so that these issues can be addressed.

superwad wrote:The very first thing I noticed in the new KDE 4.1 is in the K-Menu's Computer tab, under KDE 4.0, there used to be a list of all mounted volumes. It even had the mount point so it was easy to tell at a glance what volume was what. Yup, this is totally gone in KDE 4.1. The one feature I find the most useful and simple is the one feature that was totally removed. When asked why it was removed, I was simply told it was and that it wasn't coming back. Again, I moved on.

I thought I saw it around somewhere still in trunk. I've never used it so I haven't kept track of where it is.

superwad wrote:The first is when I already have a Kate window open, and am browsing around in my Dolphin and find another file that Kate handles, somehow a new session of Kate is opened. I don't consider this to be desired behaviour. Most programs would allow you to open new files by default in the current session, or open a new session if desired.

That's a distro thing, the default settings should automatically load in the current session. You can do it manually by editing the Kate default application command to add the "-u" option. I.e. the command will become "kate -u %U".

superwad wrote:The second problem is the Open File dialog within Kate. I can only open one file at a time in a folder, or all of them. The fancy feature of selecting multiple files by selecting the "+" on the icon doesn't seem to have been translated into the latest version of Kate.

Works for me.

superwad wrote:why can I no longer use the volume knob on my keyboard? I can use all other functions such as play and stop, but not the volume any more.

This is highly dependent on the distro and I don't even think this is a KDE-related thing. Google for "[Distro] multimedia keys".

superwad wrote:I suppose this ends, for now, my grievances on the new and shiny KDE 4. I have faith in this product, and I suppose things can't change unless the problems are brought to the attention of the developers and contributors who make this project what it is. I don't mean to sound **** or snobby, because I really am not. I do appreciate the work that's gone into this product, and I fully intend to keep using it. I'd just like to see some changes, or perhaps get some answers.

Thanks for the feedback.

Zarin wrote:I thought I saw it around somewhere still in trunk. I've never used it so I haven't kept track of where it is.

It'd be nice if they would consider bringing this back. Don't worry, I'm posting a feature request for it.

Zarin wrote:That's a distro thing, the default settings should automatically load in the current session. You can do it manually by editing the Kate default application command to add the "-u" option. I.e. the command will become "kate -u %U".

I've tried this before, and the resultant behaviour is that I get a nasty little error ("KDEInit could not launch '/usr/lib/kde4/bin/kate'."), but the file opens anyways. Again, bug report on its way (if it's not already reported).

Zarin wrote:Works for me.

Sadly, not for me. Bug report time.

Zarin wrote:This is highly dependent on the distro and I don't even think this is a KDE-related thing. Google for "[Distro] multimedia keys".

I had a feeling it was something related to the distro. I'm not that up in arms about it; the important functions seem to work properly, and the Kubuntu implementation of sound controls never seemed to work properly (like the lack of any mute). I'll report it if it becomes a problem.

Zarin wrote:Thanks for the feedback.

Thank you for your comments.

superwad, could you post here numbers of launchpad/bugs.kde.org bugreports?
We could vote/add comments for them.

One thing: features that "simply works" in KDE3 is missing in KDE4, yes this is the truth, and it is the reason "latest stable version" still says KDE3, you can see it in the KDE official homepage.

So, opting KDE4 before KDE4 became "latest stable version" is a distribution-specific choice, not the upstream, and it seems that KDE team has not yet officially announced that KDE4 is really for daily use until now.

Don't just "complain" about missing features, since that's *expected* for a software at the current stage. Instead, fire bugs directly into bugs.kde.org should be much more helpful. Thanks.

pansz wrote:Don't just "complain" about missing features, since that's *expected* for a software at the current stage. Instead, fire bugs directly into bugs.kde.org should be much more helpful. Thanks.

The problem with that is that there's no reliable way to know whether something is a bug, or a feature that will come in later versions, or a deliberate design choice. I for one don't want to plague developers with non-bugs; it keeps them from fixing the real ones (and I say that as someone married to a developer).