Upgraded to Kubuntu 8.10 and KDE 4.1.8

There is a trend developing here of which I am totally not in favor.

I see there is less and less means of configuring KDE and controlling the computer.

For example, I wanted to change the default format for the time/date display. I can add/delete items, but the format is totally beyond my control.

I wanted to change the order of items in the launcher window - impossible. Items are added automagically when installed and I could add/remove items, but changing anything else seems to be impossible.

For control, I looked in the system setting dialog for the system services. Under the Advanced tab, there is a services manager, but it handles KDE resource exclusively. The old (under 3.x) services manager for all services that I could run/stop/restart services is gone.

I have run across other instances which I can no longer remember.

Is this a path down which K/Ubuntu is driving very purposefully??? That is, a path down which the owner and user of the computer is locked out of configuring and controlling the computer and the KDE developers determine totally what the configuration is and control totally what services can be controlled?? I know I can install services, but then unless I wish to run the CLI and go back to finding (hard - docs are getting hard to find), learning and remembering (the hard part) the cli commands, I have no control.

I bailed out of Windows because of this mindset. I guess I'll watch the development and if it continues, I'll bail out of K/Ubuntu also and go back to Fedora. I know this threat doesn't really bother you and you wish I would just shut-up and do it.

K/Ubuntu was recommended to me after I had been using Fedora for many, many years. I choose Kubuntu simply because I like KDE much better than Gnome. I have stayed with Kubuntu now for a few years because it satisfied my needs. It is doing that less and less as the developers decide to exert more and more control and lock out the owner and user, who is considered to be totally lacking in intelligence.

I may have to go back to Fedora. Fedora is geared towards the business computer professional and so maybe they won't follow this path. Although, if they are using KDE also, then they probably have no choice. I don't know if Gnome is also following this path.

Maybe I'll have to find a distro the doesn't use either Gnome or KDE.

tired wrote:For example, I wanted to change the default format for the time/date display. I can add/delete items, but the format is totally beyond my control.

System Settings -> Regional & Language -> Time & Dates. Or you can use this plasmoid.

I wanted to change the order of items in the launcher window - impossible. Items are added automagically when installed and I could add/remove items, but changing anything else seems to be impossible.

Are you talking about Kickoff? You can edit the "Applications" tab with kmenuedit. In newer KDE versions, you can reorder "Favorites" items with drag and drop.

For control, I looked in the system setting dialog for the system services. Under the Advanced tab, there is a services manager, but it handles KDE resource exclusively. The old (under 3.x) services manager for all services that I could run/stop/restart services is gone.

To me, they look pretty much the same - I only have KDE services in the KDE 3.5.x service manager. However, I haven't used this module very much, so it's possible that I'm missing something.

Hans wrote:

tired wrote:For example, I wanted to change the default format for the time/date display. I can add/delete items, but the format is totally beyond my control.

System Settings -> Regional & Language -> Time & Dates. Or you can use this plasmoid.

Thanks - system settings worked

Hans wrote:

I wanted to change the order of items in the launcher window - impossible. Items are added automagically when installed and I could add/remove items, but changing anything else seems to be impossible.

Are you talking about Kickoff? You can edit the "Applications" tab with kmenuedit. In newer KDE versions, you can reorder "Favorites" items with drag and drop.

I mean the arrow on the left (and right) end of the bar on the bottom of the display. Click on it and a menu of items pops up. Click on one of the items and another menu slides out to the right. I don't know what name this stuff is called, but inferred "Launcher" from what I read in right-clicking on the arrow.

As for re-ordering the "Favorites" items with drag and drop - nope. When I try that I get a red circle with a red bar so long as the item is still in the menu display area. So re-ordering the items is not possible by any means I have been to find, including drag and drop.

Hans wrote:

For control, I looked in the system setting dialog for the system services. Under the Advanced tab, there is a services manager, but it handles KDE resource exclusively. The old (under 3.x) services manager for all services that I could run/stop/restart services is gone.

To me, they look pretty much the same - I only have KDE services in the KDE 3.5.x service manager. However, I haven't used this module very much, so it's possible that I'm missing something.

Okay I may have the wrong name, but in 3.x that I used under 8.04, there was an action that listed all of the services/programs running such as ntp, apcd, etc. All of those services that run hidden under the hood and supply the functionality needed by the application program. That action is now either missing or has been re-purposed to just KDE services. I don't know if this is because the person or persons wo programed the original have disappeared (a possibility) or if it is because the KDE developers decided to drop the original purpose and re-purpose or maybe something else entirely.

But my original premise still holds from everything I can see - the developers seem to be taking more control onto themselves and withholding it from the owner/user. Don't know if this is done purposely or is just a by-product of trying to make a really slick interface and dumbing it down for the lowest common denominator user.

I happen to think that you can do the latter and still leave controls for the user who desires the control of their own computer.

Just my opinion.

The Services module was likely a special Kubuntu module. KDE does not ship a module that controls System Services.

With regards to "the launcher window" I suspect this is the Panel. Its contents can be rearranged by clicking on the Panels cashew ( which will bring up the Panel settings ) and hovering, then dragging the Applets around.

If you cannot do this, upgrade to KDE 4.2, which will also solve the Favourites rearranging issue.
In most cases, the functionality has simply been renamed or centralised, meaning the settings are now found in a different place.

bcooksley wrote:The Services module was likely a special Kubuntu module. KDE does not ship a module that controls System Services.

With regards to "the launcher window" I suspect this is the Panel. Its contents can be rearranged by clicking on the Panels cashew ( which will bring up the Panel settings ) and hovering, then dragging the Applets around.

If you cannot do this, upgrade to KDE 4.2, which will also solve the Favourites rearranging issue.
In most cases, the functionality has simply been renamed or centralised, meaning the settings are now found in a different place.

This is getting hilarious.

Asked the same question on the Kubuntu forums.

They said it was a KDE issue, that with KDE 4.x now, KDE controls everything (????)

w/h points the finger at s/w, s/w points the finger at h/w

KDE points the finger at Kubuntu, Kubuntu points the finger at KDE.

Meanwhile nobody knows anything.

Reminds me of the following:

There is an old tale with four characters:

Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody

It so happens that there was an important job to be done and Everybody
knew that Somebody would do it.

Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry when he found out about it, because it should have
been done by Everybody.

The result was that Everybody thought that Anybody would do it, and
Nobody realized that Somebody would NOT do it.

In the end, Somebody reproached Everybody because Nobody did what could
have been done by Anybody.

- or -

Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done!

:-S;-):-D

There is also a classic KMenu option available, which can be changed to by right clicking on Kickoff's panel icon and selecting "Switch to classic menu". You may find the Services module in KDE Admin, which I don't build.

You should try a LiveCD of a different distro (in VirtualBox), compare it to what you get in KUbuntu, and then you'll know whom to blame.

I personally like my distribution because it does not add any new features its packages, so I always know whom to blame

bcooksley wrote:There is also a classic KMenu option available, which can be changed to by right clicking on Kickoff's panel icon and selecting "Switch to classic menu". You may find the Services module in KDE Admin, which I don't build.

That changed the look, but not the content.

Correct. In order to rearranage favourites or rearranging applets on the panel, if the steps above do not work, then it is likely you are not running KDE 4.2, you would be running KDE 4.1. Please upgrade.

bcooksley wrote:There is also a classic KMenu option available, which can be changed to by right clicking on Kickoff's panel icon and selecting "Switch to classic menu". You may find the Services module in KDE Admin, which I don't build.

searched for kdeadmin with synaptic and found the kdeadmin package. The description was the usual cryptic nothing that says nothing and describes nothing.

it does say that the package is maintained by canonical.

marked for install and installed.

Could find no new apps listed in any of the menus.

tried 'aptitude show kdeadmin' and got the following:

Package: kdeadmin
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Version: 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1
Priority: optional
Section: kde
Maintainer: Kubuntu Developers
Uncompressed Size: 53.2k
Depends: kcron (>= 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1), knetworkconf (>=
4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1), ksystemlog (>=
4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1), kuser (>= 4:4.1.4-0ubuntu1~intrepid1)
Conflicts: kdeadmin-kde4
Replaces: kdeadmin-kde4
Description: system administration tools from the official KDE 4 release
KDE is produced by an international technology team that creates free and open
source software for desktop and portable computing. Among KDE's products are a
modern desktop system for Linux and UNIX platforms, comprehensive office
productivity and groupware suites and hundreds of software titles in many
categories including Internet and web applications, multimedia, entertainment,
educational, graphics and software development.

This metapackage includes a collection of system administration tools provided
with the official release of KDE 4.
Homepage: http://www.kde.org/

which again doesn't really describe anything. The "description" is nothing more than generic marketing blurb for KDE.

It downloaded about 300 MB of something, but I have no way of finding out what exactly was downloaded and installed.

The package description states that the uncompressed size is 53.2k, but the download size according to synaptic was about 65M. So either the description has never, ever been updated or the compression program is faulty.:-O

bcooksley wrote:Correct. In order to rearranage favourites or rearranging applets on the panel, if the steps above do not work, then it is likely you are not running KDE 4.2, you would be running KDE 4.1. Please upgrade.

First sentence of first post in this thread:

tired wrote:Upgraded to Kubuntu 8.10 and KDE 4.1.8
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I would upgrade to 4.2 except everytime in the past I have ever tried upgrading something major such as KDE outside of the the whole distro package, it has been an un-mititgated disaster. No plans on ever going there again.

I am watching Kubuntu 9. I think it is scheduled for release this month and includes 4.2. I downloaded a liveCD of the beta and tried it for a short while. Tried to logoff the LiveCD and the computer went totally bonkers. Had to power down the power supply since the front panel switched had been messed with during the logoff. Will download a LiveCD of the final release and see if that works.