ash wrote:bloat in

UI sense ?

performance / system resources sence ?

Since I don't have any data on the latter, I'll just give an example on UI "bloat". Take a look at Settings -> Configure Konqueror. Is that what you would expect from a simple file manager?

Hans wrote:

ash wrote:bloat in

UI sense ?

performance / system resources sence ?

Since I don't have any data on the latter, I'll just give an example on UI "bloat". Take a look at Settings -> Configure Konqueror. Is that what you would expect from a simple file manager?

Use dolphin if you don't like the features offered by konqueror. Some people like simple, some don't. The inability of some users to deal with options is the justification used for dumbing down KDE. It didn't work and many longtime users felt betrayed. From all I've read, KDE 4.3 will finally resolve some of the shortcomings that made KDE4 less than useful for many. Please, leave the "simpler is better" in the past. Don't start taking away options again.

tekwyzrd wrote:
Use dolphin if you don't like the features offered by konqueror. Some people like simple, some don't. The inability of some users to deal with options is the justification used for dumbing down KDE. It didn't work and many longtime users felt betrayed. From all I've read, KDE 4.3 will finally resolve some of the shortcomings that made KDE4 less than useful for many. Please, leave the "simpler is better" in the past. Don't start taking away options again.

I'm arguing with ash whether Dolphin is needed or can be replaced by a Konqueror profile. Yes, I use Dolphin because it has the features I need from a file manager. And it's not only about the options - it was an example of why I think there's a need for Dolphin.

When I said "simple", I meant more (but not entirely) like in Arch's 'simple' rather than 'easy'; "...without unnecessary additions...".

I personally think the approach "100+1 options to satisfy all users" is wrong. I prefer to have sensible options, and it's not because I'm too dumb to deal with many options. KDE has always felt a little bit "cluttered" to me, so I generally like the direction of KDE4. (No, I won't change to Gnome anytime soon).

The problem with introducing new features/options in KDE is that you can't just remove them without having users yell at you. There'll always be someone who will miss it.
As an example, does anyone miss icon zooming from KDE3? I didn't read the planet at that time, but apparently it caused some discussion.

Hans wrote:I'll just give an example on UI "bloat". Take a look at Settings -> Configure Konqueror. Is that what you would expect from a simple file manager?

i appreciate as much settings / features as there can be - more the better

i also like clear and intuitive interface - i dont want all the features to be thrown at me at once. i want the advanced ones to be out of sight normally but at hand when i need them

in the settings window - the settings can be split to 'simple' and 'advanced' tabs

in the application interface - advanced features can be moved to a right click menu or a menu that appears on 'long click' (like some toolbar buttons in konqueror 3.5) etc. the ui looks simple and is simple to use. an advanced user can find the features he wants with one more click

Hans wrote:I'm arguing with ash whether Dolphin is needed or can be replaced by a Konqueror profile.

this can be made 'invidible' to the user. konqueror can have say 3 profiles

web surfing
advanced file manager
simple file manager (dolphin)

without looking at the window caption / intentionally trying to start advanced features / etc try to tell the difference between dolphin and konqueror pretending to be dolphin

Hans wrote:Yes, I use Dolphin because it has the features I need from a file manager. And it's not only about the options - it was an example of why I think there's a need for Dolphin.

When I said "simple", I meant more (but not entirely) like in Arch's 'simple' rather than 'easy'; "...without unnecessary additions...".

i use now all 3 - dolphin konqueror konqueror 3.5 and none of them has all the features i want at once

Hans wrote:I personally think the approach "100+1 options to satisfy all users" is wrong. I prefer to have sensible options, and it's not because I'm too dumb to deal with many options. KDE has always felt a little bit "cluttered" to me, so I generally like the direction of KDE4. (No, I won't change to Gnome anytime soon)

if 100 + 1 can be done without cluttering the ui there is no problem with it

Hans wrote:The problem with introducing new features/options in KDE is that you can't just remove them without having users yell at you. There'll always be someone who will miss it.

features may have varying importance. i see quite a distance between the zooming icons and features in file manager

I use Konqueror as file manager. I want it more convenient to use, especial with keboard. At least, as easy as Konqueror 3.

Such as:
1. I can't use 'Insert' key to select file/folder items.
2. I can't use 'left' arrow keys to quick access subfolder in treeview mode.
...etc

Or, there are configurations way I don't know?

...KDE 4.3 is very good and beautiful, and have 3D effects since 4.x. I no need install compiz for have 3D effects it is native in KDE 4.x =D... Only thing missing in they is create link of app in desktop with right click...

try space / ctrl space / - + = / backspace / alt ctrl shift arrows

i am in kde 3 now so cant test

Personally I like the way Dolphin has been separated. I never liked the browser functionality in my file manager. That was one thing about Konqueror in KDE 3 that drove me crazy. I can do all I need with Dolphin. I can manage local files and connect to remote shares. Everything works as it did in Konqueror. Its also a lot easier to make shortcuts for different places.

There is a lot of things mentioned in this thread that are far from incorrect, like no version of Kaffeine for KDE 4. I used it earlier today.

I'm still a bit unsatisfied with a few things in KDE4 but I'm quite happy with the way its turning out. The developers have done a fine job on it despite the minor annoyances. If the jump from 4.2 is as big as it was from 4.1 then I expect KDE to be much better in 4.3

ash wrote:try space / ctrl space / - + = / backspace / alt ctrl shift arrows

i am in kde 3 now so cant test

I guess you answered my post!?

If it's true, so only Ctrl+Space+Arrows is working (marked selected files) (I knew it ), but it's rather inconvenient!

tubasoldier wrote:
I'm still a bit unsatisfied with a few things in KDE4 but I'm quite happy with the way its turning out. The developers have done a fine job on it despite the minor annoyances. If the jump from 4.2 is as big as it was from 4.1 then I expect KDE to be much better in 4.3

I agree, I'm very admired KDE developers, and I also have known how it's hard to make KDE4 (totally redesign from kde3). I only afraid that some nice features of KDE3 will be dropped.

Meowth ! Thats right !

I may have finally gotten this right. As of today, I'm dual booting Kubuntu Jaunty and Vector Linux standard 6.0. Vector Linux comes with XFCE. I could download and install KDE3 with Slapt-Get if I wanted, but since QT3 is already installed, building my own KDE 3.5.10 might turn out to be fairly easy, so why not try it? I'm compiling KDE libs right now.



As the meanest, angriest, most tormented and annoying KDE4 hater ever, I have come to understand that KDE4 does not suck... except as a replacement for KDE3. It's a different approach to the desktop, suited for different settings, different situations, and different users. I love KDE3, but I like KDE4. I enjoy using it from time to time. It's not going to be all things to all people. If it's ever going to be my main desktop, I believe that day is remote at best, but I'll be using it occasionally, so we'll see. I find KDE4 to be very enjoyable to use, but occasionally frustrating to depend on. So I solved my problem.

I keep letting KDE4 drive me crazy, and there's really no reason. As Aaron has said many times, if people continue to use KDE3, it will continue to be maintained, and that's obviously what's going to happen. If KDE4 really does become the desktop of the future, KDE3 automatically becomes immportal, as timeless as TWM. Independent KDE3 distros will probably be around well into the 2020s. If large enough numbers of people refuse to give up KDE3, I bet some distros that have already dropped it will bring it back.

The only reason I hate KDE4 is that it's trying to kill KDE3. But it's not going to succeed, so I'm going to relax and enjoy it. I like having it for when I want a nice information display for my desktop while I'm not at my desk.