@TheBlackCat:

4) I've found it. well, I have to disable knotify for every single appliation, there's no default rule. Not nice, but I guess one can live with that.
5) "device notifier without automount plasmoid" does not sound like what I need. "the device manager plasmoid." is what is useless for me.
7) You can select different themes for different objects - it's a dialog hidden somwhere (I can select an image there, too, but it does not work). So where's the problem with an extra dialog for a custom image to blend?
13) One can argue about this point. For me they are useless.
15) Most Themes look ugly now, too.
16) Yes, but it's broken when you come from 3.5.

4) I'm not sure what you mean, you can turn off either check box, you don't need to do it on a per-application basis.
5) Sorry, I meant "new device notifier with automount". The "device manager" plasmoid is a 3rd-party plasmoid available on kde-look.org and in some distributions, and includes automounting (which can be enabled or disabled) as well as a lot of other features not present in the default "device notifier" plasmoid.
7) You might as well just edit the svg files in the theme if you have to make an entire new svg image just to get transparency changed. You would need the original theme svg files to get the new svg image right, anyway.
16) Once again, "different" does not mean "broken", it means "different". Are you able to change the settings to make it work like KDE 3.5? Have you tried to see if the current way things work might be better than the old way?

4) I think we talk of different things. "System Settings / 1. tab / Notifications (2. item 1. line)" - well, that's how is was tranlated to german - there I find "System messages" on the left side and "applications" on the right. I have to activate/deactivate notifications for every single listed application. and thats a lot.

5) I do not want something that eats space on my desktop for that basic tast. and I want to configure the actions that should take place when a certain type of device is added.

7) no way. I have work to do.

16) No, thats the problem. It is entitled the same, but it works different, and there's no way to change it. and things do not work better with the new model.

Anyway, waiting for 4.3 in testing is the way to go. Hopefully things work better then ...

"3) I don't have this problem. I put the kate session manager widget on my panel and I get a little icon that I can click to get a list. Did you submit a bug report? "

I finally found what you were talking about

ok, functionality in kde3.5 was quite different: click on the icon -> a list sessions popes up next side to the icon -> press <esc> or clicjk somewhere else closes the popup / select a session opens the session.

kde4: click on icon -> kate starts with a dialog to select a sessopn. <esc> does not work any more, nor does clicking somewhere else.

see, that's the kind of difference that is anoying. there are a lot of these "simplifications" that produce more work, scattered all over kde 4.2.4. looks like nobody of the developers has used kde 3.5.10 for quite a while.

samhain wrote:"looks like nobody of the developers has used kde 3.5.10 for quite a while.

Maybe, but that isn't necessarily bad. Sometimes change is for the better, and sometimes for the worse. You can't really find out until the change has been tried though, and if the devs would always refer back to "This is how it was done in the previous version" innovation would be severely hampered. Which, of course, apply to KDE as much as it does for Gnome, Windows, and MacOS X.

It affects some users more than others of course, but I think it's a bit harsh to say that differences are showstoppers just because you're used to how it worked in the 3.5 series.

Lets just get something strait here.

KDE 4 IS DIFFERENT TO KDE 3.5. You are either failing to see the differences (as in, System Settings --> Notifications) or are completely and utterly ignoring the advantages of the new systems in place. The fact that you want KDE 4 to be a near-replica of KDE 3.5 evidences itself in your remark about something as small and insignificant as the cashew. This isn't constructive criticism, this is ranting and nit-picking.

If KDE 4 is such a bane to you, don't use it. Use KDE 3.5. Stop giving me ear-ache.

4) I explained how to disable the notifications in my very first post:

Notifications can be disabled by right clicking on the "i" icon by the system tray and unchecking the "popup notices" check boxes.

5) First, it doesn't have to go on your desktop, it can go in your panel. Second, automounter is available, just use it. I don't understand why we are even discussing this, the program you are complaing about not being availabe is available.

7) Editing the svg file is easier than what you are proposing.

16) What, specifically, is the problem? "it behaves funny when compared to 3.5" is not a very helpful description.

samhain wrote:ok, functionality in kde3.5 was quite different: click on the icon -> a list sessions popes up next side to the icon -> press <esc> or clicjk somewhere else closes the popup / select a session opens the session.

kde4: click on icon -> kate starts with a dialog to select a sessopn. <esc> does not work any more, nor does clicking somewhere else.

The way you described in KDE 3.5 is exactly how it works for me in KDE 4.3.

@Madman: stop whinig. kde4.2.4 is not production ready. I would be surprised if 4.3 were production ready.

Some have overlooked the fact that I use 4.2.4 and want informations about that version - or want to know that it is solved in version xyz.

It seams to me that most of my problems with 4.2.4 are solved in 4.3. that makes the list to:

14) solved kde 4.2.4
1) 2) 3) 4) 5) 6) 10) 16) kde 4.3
9) bug already reported. maybe 4.3.X
11) 12) nobody knows
7) no way. designing a theme is more to do then change a single svg.
13) 15) no way.

And a last word to the "the advantages of the new systems in place": if you cannot line these new features out, they do not exist. You sacrifice backwards compatibility for fancy new ideas. cool, but stupid. not even microsoft did that on vista nor 7.

samhain wrote:@Madman: stop whinig. kde4.2.4 is not production ready. I would be surprised if 4.3 were production ready.

I'm sorry, but the problems that you highlighted, those that could even be considered problems, are niche corner cases. None come close to making it "not production ready".

Lets break them down:

1) A minor annoyance at best. Fixed in 4.3.
2) Works as intended, but different from 3.5
3) A bug, maybe in kde, maybe in your distribution.
4) A bug has been fixed, preventing you from doing a hack you shouldn't have needed to do in the first place. The hack is unecessary in 4.3.
5) This package is available
6) A bug, maybe in kde, maybe in your distribution.
7) A minor eyecandy complaint, which ignores the much more flexible theming system in KDE 4.3
8) Another bug, this one definitely sounds like a distribution-related bug.
9) Another fairly minor eyecandy issue that most people will never see.
10) This is the same between KDE 3.5 and 4.3, at least on the two distributions I have tried, but is configurable.
11) If this is true it sounds like a design decision.
12) Not a consistent problem, it is faster for some people and slower for others.
13) A feature that is a minor annoyance at worst if you don't want it and extremely useful if you do.
14) An extremely minor annoyance at worst that is easily fixed in at least 3 ways. At worst you can just leave it there and ignore it. It doesn't interfere with anything.
15) See 7
16) Different than 3.5 is not the same as "broken". Also configurable.

So you have at most 3 things that could be considered legitimate bugs and may not even kde KDE's fault (I personally never saw them), 3 things that are eyecandy issues and do not affect usability in any way, a minor annoyance that is already fixed, 2 minor annoyances to you that are important features for others, a program that has been available for a little while now, and 3 things that are simply different in KDE 4 and of which at least two are configurable. I don't see anything on that list that could be considered "showstoppers" or that mean "kde4.2.4 is not production ready".

samhain wrote:Some have overlooked the fact that I use 4.2.4 and want informations about that version - or want to know that it is solved in version xyz.

Sorry, I can't help you there. Most people seem to try to use up-to-date versions of the software instead of complaining about problems that are already fixed. If you want to use an out-of-date version, you will have to live with some missing features. If you want the most features, you will need to use an up-to-date version.

samhain wrote:And a last word to the "the advantages of the new systems in place": if you cannot line these new features out, they do not exist. You sacrifice backwards compatibility for fancy new ideas. cool, but stupid. not even microsoft did that on vista nor 7.

KDE did that for KDE 2 and KDE 3. That is what a major version number change means. The reason Microsoft doesn't do that is because you can't have Windows vista and windows 7 running on the same computer at the same time. You can for KDE 3.5 and KDE 4. I can easily list dozens of new features, but nobody did because you didn't ask us to.

Also, these two sentences contradict each other:

samhain wrote:I would be surprised if 4.3 were production ready.

samhain wrote:It seams to me that most of my problems with 4.2.4 are solved in 4.3.

why to hell do you anser on questions for kde4.2.4 if ou do not even know it ?????

"KDE did that for KDE 2 and KDE 3". no, it didn't.

I did not think any of my points are bugs. they are just things that anoy me because they get in my way when working. if there is a solution in kde4.3 , ok. if there is none, well, i'm not married to kde.

"as long as they complain, they are buying". I won't complain any more. either it works, or it get fired.

My two cents....

KDE is the work of a legion of mostly volunteers , who dedicate large parts of their spare time to create a product that you are free to use, modify or leave alone. KDE 4 is a remarkable product if only for the fact that it has been devised, designed and implemented through human collaboration, with in most cases no compensation other than peers' and users' appreciation.

Such a model deserves respect and lenience, words that do not come to mind when I read your posts.

There is a difference between detecting bugs and constructively reporting them in order to allow people to get them fixed, or on the other hand going on and on about a list of minor issues that may not even be bugs at all, in a tone that does not even hint at showing respect to the KDE dev community.

If you want people to listen, you can either shout them in the ear, or ask for their attention and say please. I think the latter will get you better results in the long run.

And a last word to the "the advantages of the new systems in place": if you cannot line these new features out, they do not exist.

Oh, goody. I think I'll start with plasma:

Anything I can have on the desktop, I can put in the panel, and vice versa. I can work without panels productively, if I want. That's more then can be said for any other DE out there.
I can do simple tasks that should not NEED me to wait for a full-blown application to load to do... without a full-blown application. I can interact with websites without opening a web browser. I can interact and open files anywhere on my computer without opening a file manager. I can keep images and videos that I like close at hand and display them without opening a separate application. In short: I have become more productive.
I have more control over panels then I ever did with any other DE: I can put whatever I want in them, position them as exactly as I want, even give them a minimum and maximum width/height and have them expand when a widget requests it (like the task manager), I can dictate from where it starts to expand (left, right or both), I can have widgets turn from their icons into full widgets if the panel is big enough and I can easy click-n-drag between the panels and the desktop. The new configuration is sleek, clever and still gives me fuller control of the panel without getting in the way with an annoying pop-up window that feels completely detached. Whenever I make a change, I can see the results instantly without having to click, "Apply", then decide I don't like it, change it, then click, "Apply" again...
The new K menu lets me keep the applications I use most close at hand, and quickly find the application I seldom use with the search function. I can easily switch between it and the traditional K menu with a right-click and a left-click. I have far more control over what I want to see in the traditional K menu and can have several, separate K menus that display different things.
The device manager combines the best of a desktop icon and a pop-up window when new devices are mounted: I can see clearly at a glance and click on the icon in the widget if I want to interact with it (without having to minimize or move all my windows out of the way), and it doesn't steal focus from the window I'm currently working in or get in the way of what I was typing with an annoying pop-up.
The system tray's new configuration dialogue gives me more control over the annoying pop-up notifications you mentioned and includes a better configuration over which icons to hide.
Using the Marble plugin for the plasma wallpaper, I navigated from England to Austria entirely from the desktop - without opening and closing a full-blown application and without connecting to the internet. The atlas will remain completely unused the next time I go, and I don't have to go wasting time waiting for the full application to load.
New wallpapers were easy to see and install from kde-look.org, as were new themes and new Plasma widgets - and once more, I haven't opened a web browser, navigated to the site, downloaded the wallpaper/widget/theme, opened the configuration dialogue, navigated to where I downloaded the theme and finally installed it. Sharing and using what the KDE community have contributed has never been so easy, and that functionality is not available in Windows, Gnome, KDE 3 or Mac OS.

Please also note that this list is not comprehensive. These are just the advantages that I've adapted to and used, and it makes me overall far faster at doing things I do very often. It meant that I got used to the new system, but in short, the new system is just better. It remains as fast as the KDE 3.5 desktop was when it was installed and rarely crashes.


But, in case you've been away for the past... ooh, I don't know... YEAR, this argument has been had a thousand times over and it's getting kinda boring now. The basics boil down to: the KDE team are not changing their minds. Use the new system or use something else.

samhain wrote:why to hell do you anser on questions for kde4.2.4 if ou do not even know it ?????

I did use, but it is out-of-date now so I don't anymore.

samhain wrote:"KDE did that for KDE 2 and KDE 3". no, it didn't.

Yes, they did. As I said several times before, the definition of a major version number change is a break in backwards compatibility. That is what the change from KDE 1 to KDE 2 meant. That is what the change from KDE 2 to KDE 3 meant. And that is what the change from KDE 3 to KDE 4 meant.

Ok. Now I have installed kde 4.3 from unstable.

1) no, popups are still there. I can disable tasklist popups. I can disable system tray popups. I have popups when the mouse is hoovering over the pager, over icons (e.g.: "application launcher"), over the digital clock. There is no way to remove these popups, as they are not related to knotify.

1a) popups leave artefacts behind. that's really bad.

2) still not usable.

3) ok.
4) ok.
5) ok.
6) ok.

6a) new popups that cannot be turned off on all desktop icons.

7) no way.
8 ) same error as 4.2.4.
9) still splatted all over the place.

12) speed is ok.
13) pupups are still there and cannot be disabled.
14) ok. i-hate-the-cashew is still working.

16) focus still broken: plasmoids (e.g.) still have click-to-focus, even when global settings is on "focus under mouse". this occurs on less places than before, but is still anoying.

17) with system setting in "treeview" they are usable. but I get new popups or tooltips, that cannot be turned off.

18) "i" in systemtray is useless, that should go into a contextmenu as it does not respond to rmb.

19) folder view crashes now an then. had to restart it 3 times in about 2 hours.

chances are that 4.5 will actually be usable.

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17) with system setting in "treeview" they are usable. but I get new popups or tooltips, that cannot be turned off.

You can turn that off actually. System Settings > Configure > Show detailed tooltips.