This is to users of products from Unpaid Open Source project.

Reality check please!

If you expect to get exactly what YOU want it is time for you to realize that YOU have a product just because some people think that is nice to code something on their own spare time. Probably because he/she want to learn something or want to try something out. I am amazed about the quality that is delivered by those individuals even though they are not paid for it. The users of open source products are lucky to even have one piece of software that the have not paid for. The motivation for a open source developer is the freedom to do whatever he/she wants to do. If developers don't want to develop let's say KDE 3.5 any more they don't have to. Nobody has the right to expect them to do that!

The developers on the other hand cannot expect that users want to use their software. Some developers do care about how many users that uses their software other developers don't. In reality open source developers don't need users, even it its nice to have some well behaving users, the others is no of no interest of a open source developer.

I am not a KDE developer so don't blame them for what's in this text. It is written by me, a user and a developer that has not delivered anything to the community. The stuff I develop at my spare time usually don't reach finished state because i have learned what i aimed for before finishing.

The words above may sound harsh but it is the reality. I really think that open source projects are fun to follow and sometimes participate in. Since I am not expected to pay/deliver anything I don't expect others in open source projects to do that either.

Now please don't start flame wars they don't lead anywhere. If you are not happy with a open source product, tell the developers nicely, if they don't care/don't have time please choose another product of your choice. Myself I use a lot of OSes and desktops all of them has their pros and cons.

/Mats

-- NO I don't want this to be a long flamewar or something like that...

There's another side to it. If someone comes into your house without you asking, takes all your furniture, replaces it with new furniture that you don't like as much, are you not entitled to be critical because you didn't pay them to take your furniture?

Still, I think that many of us could have handled the transition better, and that certainly includes me. The important thing to note is that if you want to keep using KDE3, you probably can, at least some of the time, so they're not really taking your furniture. For me, the answer is live CDs. I intend to keep using the Slax and possibly the Lenny live CDs. Slax is amazing; even a nonguru like me can hack it every whichway. In the end, if KDE4 is going to be usable by me, I'll get used to it, but having a plan for using KDE3 forever can only make that easier. I use the Slax Cd most of the time, but I have Kubuntu on the hard drive.

"open source" = no responsibility

"free as free beer" - serve beer with some poison in it. people will love you for it's free and sue you for the poison.

"I did it for fun. But I have no responsibility for it". Do this as a red cross volunteer and you ask for trouble.

Whatever you do, you are responsible for it. Oh well, not if you are a politition ...

He he! I thought my "taking your furniture" analogy was a little harsh, but it sure beats "poison beer".

The KDE team isn't taking anybody's furniture or poisoning anyone's beer, and everybody, including those (like me) who freaked out and posted angry messages share some of the responsibility for the pain that this has caused.

blackbelt_jones wrote:There's another side to it. If someone comes into your house without you asking, takes all your furniture, replaces it with new furniture that you don't like as much, are you not entitled to be critical because you didn't pay them to take your furniture?

But it isn't your house, someone else owns the house, they are doing all the maintenance, all the cleaning, paying the bills, making all the improvements, and then passes it on to various management groups that let you use it free of charge.

Then one day they find out that on the next block over someone is setting up a new area with much better water, improved drainage, firmer ground to build on, better electricity, phone, and internet, and nicer roads and sidewalks to get around. Rather than keeping the same outer appearance to the house but reworking all the internal design, they use it as an opportunity to fix problems with the old design.

While they are in the process of building the new houses, some management groups decide they are going to make their tenants move into the uncompleted houses despite the warnings of the owners that they aren't ready, other management groups decide they are going to wait until the houses are livable, while still others decide to maintain properties on both blocks and let their tenants choose. The people living in the first management group, rather than switching to a management group that still keeps properties on the old block, instead blame the owners for the decision of the management group to make them move.

I really like this free toilet analogy:

http://enfranchisedmind.com/blog/posts/fyi-my-open-source-users/

samhain wrote:"open source" = no responsibility

"free as free beer" - serve beer with some poison in it. people will love you for it's free and sue you for the poison.
"I did it for fun. But I have no responsibility for it". Do this as a red cross volunteer and you ask for trouble.
Whatever you do, you are responsible for it. Oh well, not if you are a politition ...

About the poison analogy:
Well in most countries it is against the law to write viruses/trojans and such things. If I give you my car for free and it breaks I have no responsibility to fix the car. In fact even if you buy it from me I as a private person has I no responsibility to fix it. If I put a car bomb in it it is another story. If I give away different cars later you cannot complain.

About the red cross analogy:
The volunteer is probably provided a place to stay and food for the day. The volunteer and the red cross has an contract. None of those conditions exists for unpaid open source project.

/Mats

TheBlackCat wrote:

blackbelt_jones wrote:There's another side to it. If someone comes into your house without you asking, takes all your furniture, replaces it with new furniture that you don't like as much, are you not entitled to be critical because you didn't pay them to take your furniture?

But it isn't your house, someone else owns the house, they are doing all the maintenance, all the cleaning, paying the bills, making all the improvements, and then passes it on to various management groups that let you use it free of charge.

Then one day they find out that on the next block over someone is setting up a new area with much better water, improved drainage, firmer ground to build on, better electricity, phone, and internet, and nicer roads and sidewalks to get around. Rather than keeping the same outer appearance to the house but reworking all the internal design, they use it as an opportunity to fix problems with the old design.



While they are in the process of building the new houses, some management groups decide they are going to make their tenants move into the uncompleted houses despite the warnings of the owners that they aren't ready, other management groups decide they are going to wait until the houses are livable, while still others decide to maintain properties on both blocks and let their tenants choose. The people living in the first management group, rather than switching to a management group that still keeps properties on the old block, instead blame the owners for the decision of the management group to make them move.

TheBlackCat wrote:

blackbelt_jones wrote:There's another side to it. If someone comes into your house without you asking, takes all your furniture, replaces it with new furniture that you don't like as much, are you not entitled to be critical because you didn't pay them to take your furniture?

But it isn't your house, someone else owns the house, they are doing all the maintenance, all the cleaning, paying the bills, making all the improvements, and then passes it on to various management groups that let you use it free of charge.

Then one day they find out that on the next block over someone is setting up a new area with much better water, improved drainage, firmer ground to build on, better electricity, phone, and internet, and nicer roads and sidewalks to get around. Rather than keeping the same outer appearance to the house but reworking all the internal design, they use it as an opportunity to fix problems with the old design.

While they are in the process of building the new houses, some management groups decide they are going to make their tenants move into the uncompleted houses despite the warnings of the owners that they aren't ready, other management groups decide they are going to wait until the houses are livable, while still others decide to maintain properties on both blocks and let their tenants choose. The people living in the first management group, rather than switching to a management group that still keeps properties on the old block, instead blame the owners for the decision of the management group to make them move.

Wow, you really ran with that metaphor, didn't you?

The only reality is freedom. You can do whatever you want, and we can complain all we want, and that's freedom. I'd say you've got the upper hand.

I'd like to add that I admire KDE4, but I prefer using KDE3 in Slax, and that works perfect for me, and I belive that I'm gong to be able to keep doing that, so I have nothing to complain about.

The public license means that the software belongs to the whole community. I think that all of us, devs and users, have a responsibility to the community, and in my opinion, the KDE devs have been very mindful of that responsibility. Some of the fanboys have been obnoxious, but the developers that I've encountered have been patient and responsive.

There are ways we could have all done better, and I hope that we can learn that, but no one has been delinquent, least of all the KDE team. I think that KDE4 is destined to be judged hugely successful overall, and down the road, that's all that's going to matter.


If you want to keep using KDE3, I think the live CDs are the way to go, and I recommend Slax in particular. It's really easy to make your own CDs, and I'm not even talking about the GUI CD builder at the slax site. Just open the tar file, add a bunch of modules that you can download from the site or that you can make from any slackware *.tgz packages, and just run the make iso script. Slax knows a lotta tricks!

The thing about a live CD is that the / (root) system refreshes itself with each reboot, so that's a built-in security advantage, but you need to create a normal user account and a new root password. (I should write a tutorial or something.) My point is that I was able to get what I need, and so can a lot of other people, if they think out of the box a little, and realize that they may have to give up something.

To me, KDE3 is a classic, like a 67 mustang, and thanks to live CDs, I may never have to give that up entirely. I'd like to see a classic KDE community remastering and sharing live CDs, like a classic car club. But KDE3 is in the can, it's done. Its range is limited, but it's about as close to perfect as anything ever gets. There's no reason to keep working on it, is there?