Ignacio Serantes wrote:Despite my criticisms of some aspects of KDE 4 I'm a fan, if not why I would lost my time using it, but for enterprise environments KDE 4 is not ready outside English language.

With my reasoning hat on, I'll say: bring actual, statistically relevant data (actual migrations hindered by non UTF-8 support) and I'll believe you. Otherwise, your argument will not hold.

einar wrote:

Ignacio Serantes wrote:Despite my criticisms of some aspects of KDE 4 I'm a fan, if not why I would lost my time using it, but for enterprise environments KDE 4 is not ready outside English language.

With my reasoning hat on, I'll say: bring actual, statistically relevant data (actual migrations hindered by non UTF-8 support) and I'll believe you. Otherwise, your argument will not hold.

I have not that data and I'm based in my experience and in bugs.kde.org about accessing local files, uncompressing legacy zip files, problems with samba or ftp, etc... There is reports about problems with Russian, Chinese, Japanese and Spanish and, probably, other languages. In my particular case, I download several files with broken encoding a week for a subtitles forum, I have many old zip files with broken encoding and, in my office, we must maintain a Windows 98 computer for hardware compatibility.

In an ideal world, all computers must be work in unicode but, in real world, some subsystems must be maintain old servers because same applications was not ported yet to a unicode system. I sometimes work for an important Spanish consulting company that I know for sure that they are still using sometimes several DOS programs that there are not ported to Windows yet.

Naturally, this was an opinion and is not my work neither my problem probing I'm right or not.

Virtually all microcontroller based devices with sd-slot use broken encoding if developed outside US.

einar wrote:

Ignacio Serantes wrote:Despite my criticisms of some aspects of KDE 4 I'm a fan, if not why I would lost my time using it, but for enterprise environments KDE 4 is not ready outside English language.

With my reasoning hat on, I'll say: bring actual, statistically relevant data (actual migrations hindered by non UTF-8 support) and I'll believe you. Otherwise, your argument will not hold.

Good point, but I the possibility of this contributing to the non-adoption of KDE in a corporate environment can't be discounted.

Any desktop PC placed into a corporate situation would almost certainly have to interact with Windows PCs and their files. So the question would be along the lines of "What proportion of corporate environments have many files with names that trip up KDE4?"

If when testing the possibility of integrating KDE into an established Windows environment they can't get the desktop to interact with necessary files, then that would have to be considered a deal breaker in the eyes of any reasonable person. If there are hardly any files of this type then possibly even tedious work-arounds could be considered for these rare occurrences.

Anyone got any hard stats on the commonality of these files? Would be interesting to hear. If good data can be found, maybe the right people could be convinced to fix this? Any Windows sys-admins out there in this audience?

the condition with hebrew filenames (my use of kde is - several kde linux boxes and no windows box. i download files from kopete (msn) / http / usb drives etc)

if linux is configured to the same locales to match windows - they usually work ok together

if linux is configured to utf8 it will see windows filenames as "???? ??.png" but usually will work with them ok unless there are filename conflicts caused by substituting hebrew with ?. windows sees the linux filenames as a?:?#?^? where ? is the question_in_black_diamond glyph and usually works ok with them (maybe sometimes complains about illegal characters in the name but very rare at most)

if the conflicts happen sometimes you just rename the file in the file allready exists error window and thats it. sometimes it refuses to accept the file and you have to use konsole

filenames with various ascii glyphs (like the stuff ::l337 k1dd13s:: add to the filenames in their mp3 folder) often require to use konsole

in other lanquages (that use other codes) the issues may be common to a different extent

Well, seems to be minor problems in an Hebrew environment but, is KDE 4 working fine in other languages?

I think that this was an important question so, please, if you are using KDE 4 in other language that English confirm that you have, or have not, legacy encoding problems.

I think that build a list of languages with encoding severity problems working with Windows would be useful for KDE developers.

For Arabic, I faced this problem.

Has anybody any idea how to work around that problem at least for samba shares?

samhain wrote:Has anybody any idea how to work around that problem at least for samba shares?

You can install Nautilus and that will work.

I can stay with KDE 3.5 and it works

No, I'm interested in a solution for KDE4. The problem is persistent through all KDE applications. If I cannot access the files with konqueror, I cannot access them with any KDE4 application. As I mentioned before, thats a no-go for business (I stopped rolling out KDE desktops for some months), but I do not like gnome.

StopTheFail wrote:You can install Nautilus and that will work.

That's not what I'd call an acceptable solution.
To answer the question posted earlier, I use a non-English locale and I've had no issues with file names (Italian and Japanese, along with English).

I've read your posting. On KDE 3.5 I have rectangles instead of "??", but I can access files/folders/content. When I creat a file with "ÖÄÜ" it becomes "A+'~' above" + character on non-UTF8-device. I do not know why you can access italian & japanaese files, but maybe the characters do not use 0b11xxxxxx bitmask?

einar wrote:

StopTheFail wrote:You can install Nautilus and that will work.

That's not what I'd call an acceptable solution.

I whole heartily agree, but at least one of the current devs working in the area relating to the problem are on the record saying that they don't intend to fix KDE in that area.

So, you can ask an end user to drop to a Konsole command line, and resolve the situation that way, or offer a non KDE GUI solution such as Nautilus. There maybe some KDE GUI solution out there that works, but I'm unaware of it. If someone knows of one that'd be fantastic.

einar wrote:To answer the question posted earlier, I use a non-English locale and I've had no issues with file names (Italian and Japanese, along with English).

Not all users are affected by this, but I can assure you it is a real problem for some.

einar wrote:To answer the question posted earlier, I use a non-English locale and I've had no issues with file names (Italian and Japanese, along with English).

I think that you don't understand the problem nature. This is no locale related, is a encoding problem and, if Thiago Macieira explain that he don't fix it then the bug exist.

If you are looking for a bug in an incorrect place then you can't found it.

I'm pretty sure that I will never have a problem with Italian locations in KDE. Could be totally broken and I don't note it.

quoting gets funny when nested - that above was from einar not myself