Posted in order that someone who can fix these things notices. I'm downgrading to KDE 3.

My first thought: Oh great. Vista.

1. Start menu got messed with. Can't find anything. (Changed to old-style menu and desktop immediately.)
2. Start menu (old style) requires a click-n-hold to activate, not just a click. Very annoying. No obvious way to change.
3. Arrow keys and delete/ins/pgup/dn/home/end aren't working. Media keys stopped working. Set layout to generic 104-key, which fixed everything but the media keys *and the up arrow*.... Rebooted, and the arrow/delete keys broke again. The media keys aren't that important, but the up arrow is sorely missed.
4. Can't figure out how to change background/selected app colors of taskbar. Can't tell which application is selected at a glance anymore.
5. No obvious way to change color of selected desktop in pager. Can no longer see which desktop is selected.
6. Icons kde and kde-windows appear scrambled when used as start-menu icons.
7. KDE Classic Mouse theme changes back to default theme after a while. This is the third time I've needed to set it. Maybe it'll stick this time. (Edit: Nope.)
8. No obvious way to add a start-menu folder to the taskbar. I was using a "quicklist" folder to keep my most commonly apps in, right next to the start menu. This can be done with a single app shortcut, but no obvious way to create a start-menu-like icon.
9. If I hover over the lower-right hand corner of a folder icon on the desktop for a second before double-clicking to open, the preview window catches the double-click, preventing the folder from opening.
10. In KWrite, the New/Open/Save/Save As/Undo/Redo buttons are all using generic icons. Changing them in the config window (to the document-* icons) doesn't do anything. This appears size-related, as other icons work. No way to tell if an icon will work or not from this window.
11. In the start menu (old style), if you click on a sub-menu *just* as it opens, it flashes once, then refuses to open.
12. No way to turn all sound notifications off with one button. Have to manually go through and turn each one off individually.
13. No "Switch to KDE3 look-and-feel" button. More generically, there's no option for switching to various look-n-feels. (Win98, WinXP, Vista, Mac9, MacX, etc...)
14. Refreshing issues. See picture.

15. My Ctrl+Alt+@ input action got changed to Ctrl+Alt+ when I upgraded, which isn't correct. Input Actions will let me enter Ctrl+Alt+@ as a shortcut, but it doesn't work. The same applies to *any* Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Number shortcut.
16. The default login screen does not have an obvious way to shut down the computer, or use the icons in the lower-left using the keyboard. Icons in the lower-left do not have tooltips.
17. Login manager does not have an obvious way to enter it as root.
18. When starting the root terminal, the "enter your password" screen gets messed up with "bouncing cursor" launch feedback on. Other items, like synamptic, use a different screen.
19. The root terminal shortcut doesn't work.
20. The systemsettings command doesn't bring up anything when run as root. (xhost set correctly.)
21. Desktop settings->Appearance->Desktop Activity->Type. There's a short explaination of what the options do, but it's faded out, and (I think) incomplete, making it useless.
22. No obvious way to let mouse wheel on empty desktop switch desktops. Annoying.

My first thought: Oh great. Vista.

Guess you don't use 4.3.x - then you would probably say "Oh excellent. Win7".

2. Start menu (old style) requires a click-n-hold to activate, not just a click. Very annoying. No obvious way to change.

Can't reproduce.

3. Arrow keys and delete/ins/pgup/dn/home/end aren't working. Media keys stopped working. Set layout to generic 104-key, which fixed everything but the media keys *and the up arrow*.... Rebooted, and the arrow/delete keys broke again. The media keys aren't that important, but the up arrow is sorely missed.

Doesn't sound like a KDE problem. Did you upgrade anything else? If you run xev (in a terminal) and press up, does it show anything?

4. Can't figure out how to change background/selected app colors of taskbar. Can't tell which application is selected at a glance anymore.
5. No obvious way to change color of selected desktop in pager. Can no longer see which desktop is selected.

It depends on your Plasma theme. Right click on desktop -> Desktop (or Appearance) Settings -> Theme. There's a module in System Settings (Advanced -> Desktop Theme Details) to change the theme for individual components.

8. No obvious way to add a start-menu folder to the taskbar. I was using a "quicklist" folder to keep my most commonly apps in, right next to the start menu. This can be done with a single app shortcut, but no obvious way to create a start-menu-like icon.

Don't quite get what you want. Have you tried the Quicklaunch widget?

9. If I hover over the lower-right hand corner of a folder icon on the desktop for a second before double-clicking to open, the preview window catches the double-click, preventing the folder from opening.

Can reproduce. Please file a bug (if one doesn't already exist) on http://bugs.kde.org .

11. In the start menu (old style), if you click on a sub-menu *just* as it opens, it flashes once, then refuses to open.

Can't reproduce

12. No way to turn all sound notifications off with one button. Have to manually go through and turn each one off individually.

Is this different in KDE3? Anyway, you can go to Player Settings -> No audio output if you don't want sound notifications.

14. Refreshing issues. See picture.

Problem with your graphic driver, most likely.

17. Login manager does not have an obvious way to enter it as root.

You shouldn't log in as root.

18. When starting the root terminal, the "enter your password" screen gets messed up with "bouncing cursor" launch feedback on. Other items, like synamptic, use a different screen.

Don't understand what you mean.

19. The root terminal shortcut doesn't work.

You mean the one in the menu? (I don't have such an item).

20. The systemsettings command doesn't bring up anything when run as root. (xhost set correctly.)

Tried 'kdesu systemsettings'?

22. No obvious way to let mouse wheel on empty desktop switch desktops. Annoying.

It's enabled by default (not for Folder View, however). In 4.4 you'll be able to choose mouse actions yourself.

1. I prefer lancelot myself, with the new launcher being second. But that is one of the benefits of KDE. You may want to at least give the new menu a chance instead of just immediately switching.
2. That isn't the case for me.
3. That really should not happen. I don't know how KDE would be able to disable a basic button like that.
4. You should try other plasma themes. You can also mix and match parts of existing themes if you like.
5. See previous
6. I'm not sure what you mean here.
7. Only people running Debian seem to have this problem, so it is probably a bug introduced by them.
8. Use the quicklaunch plasmoid. You can also put lancelot somewhere, then drag the title of the favorites column to the taskbar, then remove lancelot.
9. There is already a request to be able to turn off the popup.
10. This sounds like a distribution-related issue.
11. This doesn't happen to me. Have you submitted a bug-report?
12. System settings -> notifications -> Player settings -> No audio output
13. There is a wishlist item for being able to package the system appearance into a single theme. I don't think KDE 3 had this, either.
14. I don't know what I am supposed to see in the picture.
15. You should submit a bug report about this.
16. The login screen is usually picked by the distribution, not by KDE.
17. Just type in "root".
18. The distribution picks which program to use for this. Try running "kdesu konsole" and see if the problem still exists.
19. That is under the control of the distribution, not KDE
20. Did you use kdesu? If not then this depends on how a distribution configured its x-server
21. There should probably be a bug report about this as well.
22. Are you using the folderview desktop or the normal desktop? It is known not to work with folderview desktop (probably because folderview has at least the potential to have a scroll bar). This will be configurable in KDE 4.4.

1. Guess you don't use 4.3.x - then you would probably say "Oh excellent. Win7".

4.3.2. No, I'm not interested in Win7, either.

3. Doesn't sound like a KDE problem. Did you upgrade anything else? If you run xev (in a terminal) and press up, does it show anything?
Upgraded a bunch of stuff, but it really shouldn't keep breaking every time I reboot. xev gives:

Code: Select all

FocusOut event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x3800001,
    mode NotifyGrab, detail NotifyAncestor

FocusIn event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x3800001,
    mode NotifyUngrab, detail NotifyAncestor

KeymapNotify event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
    keys:  2   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   4294967168 0   0
           0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x3800001,
    root 0x13c, subw 0x0, time 980056, (-932,660), root:(7,687),
    state 0x10, keycode 111 (keysym 0xff52, Up), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

Up arrow works in text-mode, and if I hit up in this box, the cursor flashes, but doesn't move. The Input Actions window does read the Up key, I just can't do anything useful with the key.

4. 5. It depends on your Plasma theme. Right click on desktop -> Desktop (or Appearance) Settings -> Theme. There's a module in System Settings (Advanced -> Desktop Theme Details) to change the theme for individual components.

There are two themes preinstalled, and neither are very good at this. (Yes, I could get a different theme, but I'm not interested enough to do this.)

8. Don't quite get what you want. Have you tried the Quicklaunch widget?

The quicklaunch is amost what I want, but uses too much taskbar real-estate. Imagine a quicklaunch, that has one button, that brings up a start-menu-like menu when you click it.

Or, go into the start menu, right-click on an app, and choose "Add to Panel". I want that, but with sub-menus.

12. Is this different in KDE3? Anyway, you can go to Player Settings -> No audio output if you don't want sound notifications.

I think so, but it's something I only needed to do once.

14. Problem with your graphic driver, most likely.

Wouldn't suprise me.

17. You shouldn't log in as root.

To be clear, that was the login manager module in system settings. Sorry. Everything is grayed out, in the same way that 3.5 would be for a non-root user, but there's no admin mode button.

18. Don't understand what you mean.

Go to Start->Utilities->Root Console. It pops up an "Enter your root password" box, and grays out the screen. If you have a "bouncing cursor" type notification, the bouncing icon leaves trash behind.

19. You mean the one in the menu? (I don't have such an item).

I do. Start->Utilities->Root Console.

20. Tried 'kdesu systemsettings'?
kdesu systemsettings
bash: kdesu: command not found

apt-get install kdesu
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package kdesu is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source
E: Package kdesu has no installation candidate

22. It's enabled by default (not for Folder View, however). In 4.4 you'll be able to choose mouse actions yourself.

Yeah, well, I'm using folder view....

7. Only people running Debian seem to have this problem, so it is probably a bug introduced by them.

I'll troubleshoot this a bit.

13. There is a wishlist item for being able to package the system appearance into a single theme. I don't think KDE 3 had this, either.

I recall when first setting up KDE that I had the option of choosing from a few look-n-feels. I don't think there was an option once you finished installation, though.

Upgraded a bunch of stuff, but it really shouldn't keep breaking every time I reboot. xev gives:

There's no KeyPress event?

There are two themes preinstalled, and neither are very good at this. (Yes, I could get a different theme, but I'm not interested enough to do this.)

Personally I think the default theme (Air) is pretty clear:
http://kde.org/announcements/4.3/images ... esktop.png

But well, we're all different. Plasma themes are very easy to install. You could give Aya a try. It's more "traditional" and follows your color theme.

The quicklaunch is amost what I want, but uses too much taskbar real-estate. Imagine a quicklaunch, that has one button, that brings up a start-menu-like menu when you click it.

Sorry, don't know about this one. I don't have any shortcuts on my desktop or panel.

Wouldn't suprise me.

Which graphic card and driver?

To be clear, that was the login manager module in system settings. Sorry. Everything is grayed out, in the same way that 3.5 would be for a non-root user, but there's no admin mode button.

Aha. For me it shows a password dialog when I try to enter the module. Don't know if it's a KDEMod thing.

Go to Start->Utilities->Root Console. It pops up an "Enter your root password" box, and grays out the screen. If you have a "bouncing cursor" type notification, the bouncing icon leaves trash behind.

I don't have that in my menu. The trash thing sounds like a graphic driver issue, again.

bash: kdesu: command not found

You could try http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=40158 (found it with Google, I don't know if it's a good solution or not).

evilmrhenry wrote:3. Doesn't sound like a KDE problem. Did you upgrade anything else? If you run xev (in a terminal) and press up, does it show anything?
Upgraded a bunch of stuff, but it really shouldn't keep breaking every time I reboot. xev gives:

Code: Select all

FocusOut event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x3800001,
    mode NotifyGrab, detail NotifyAncestor

FocusIn event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x3800001,
    mode NotifyUngrab, detail NotifyAncestor

KeymapNotify event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
    keys:  2   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   4294967168 0   0
           0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x3800001,
    root 0x13c, subw 0x0, time 980056, (-932,660), root:(7,687),
    state 0x10, keycode 111 (keysym 0xff52, Up), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

Up arrow works in text-mode, and if I hit up in this box, the cursor flashes, but doesn't move. The Input Actions window does read the Up key, I just can't do anything useful with the key.

Seems like your X is somehow broken. This is what you should see:

Code: Select all

KeyPress event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x1000001,
    root 0x1a7, subw 0x0, time 114549229, (688,363), root:(692,388),
    state 0x0, keycode 98 (keysym 0xff52, Up), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x1000001,
    root 0x1a7, subw 0x0, time 114549286, (688,363), root:(692,388),
    state 0x0, keycode 98 (keysym 0xff52, Up), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False


Apparenlty it's registering the key release but not key press

evilmrhenry wrote:18. Don't understand what you mean.

Go to Start->Utilities->Root Console. It pops up an "Enter your root password" box, and grays out the screen. If you have a "bouncing cursor" type notification, the bouncing icon leaves trash behind.

19. You mean the one in the menu? (I don't have such an item).

I do. Start->Utilities->Root Console.

20. Tried 'kdesu systemsettings'?
kdesu systemsettings
bash: kdesu: command not found

apt-get install kdesu
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package kdesu is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source
E: Package kdesu has no installation candidate

Looks like Debian didn't do a good job packaging KDE

These three are definitely Debian bugs because Gentoo (which does not modify packages feature-wise) does not have it. And most likely it does not work because you don't have kdesu.

So you should definitely file some bugs...

Alright, tracked down the up arrow to an errant xmodmap.conf file. Renamed it, and the keyboard works correctly.

Driver is Nvidia, 185.18.36. I upgraded at the same time, as the old driver didn't work anymore.

Hans wrote:

bash: kdesu: command not found

You could try http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=40158 (found it with Google, I don't know if it's a good solution or not).

That works. Thanks. I'll hand it off to Debian.

Alec wrote:Looks like Debian didn't do a good job packaging KDE

These three are definitely Debian bugs because Gentoo (which does not modify packages feature-wise) does not have it. And most likely it does not work because you don't have kdesu.

So you should definitely file some bugs...

Tracked down the root console problem. The command is "gksu /usr/bin/x-terminal-emulator" which runs afoul of xhost. To fix it, I changed it to "/usr/bin/x-terminal-emulator", and set it to run as root.

System Settings is not meant to be run as root, and will usually foul things up when done so.
The only way to do it is by: kdesu systemsettings --nofork

evilmrhenry wrote:The quicklaunch is amost what I want, but uses too much taskbar real-estate. Imagine a quicklaunch, that has one button, that brings up a start-menu-like menu when you click it.

I already explained how to do this with lancelot. You can also use quicklaunch but set the visible icons to zero.

evilmrhenry wrote:There are two themes preinstalled, and neither are very good at this. (Yes, I could get a different theme, but I'm not interested enough to do this.)

If you aren't willing to take basic steps to fix the problem, I'm not sure we can help you very much. It takes about two clicks to install a theme, just click "new theme" then "install".

evilmrhenry wrote:I think so, but it's something I only needed to do once.

You still only need to do it once.

TheBlackCat wrote:I already explained how to do this with lancelot. You can also use quicklaunch but set the visible icons to zero.

Ah! Quicklaunch with 0 visible icons is the behaviour I want.

TheBlackCat wrote:If you aren't willing to take basic steps to fix the problem, I'm not sure we can help you very much. It takes about two clicks to install a theme, just click "new theme" then "install".

I poked around a bit, and found one I like better, but I'm still not really happy with it.

New bug: when switching from Old to new style Application launcher and vice versa, the icon switches back to the default.

New bug: If you have an item in the favorites, in the new-style Application launcher, and you change the icon of the source item, the icon in the favorites menu doesn't change unless you remove and re-add it. (Or reboot or something.)

Did you submit these bugs to bugs.kde.org? This is really not the right place for bug reports, most developers will never see them.

TheBlackCat wrote:Did you submit these bugs to bugs.kde.org? This is really not the right place for bug reports, most developers will never see them.

I'm waiting for info like: "This is actually Debian's fault" or "It doesn't do that over here" before bothering with a bug report. (Also, a bit of free time.)