blackbelt_jones wrote:If opensuse is integrating firefox with KDE, it should be available for other distros eventually, right? Problem solved, for those who want it. I don't know why everything needs to be integrated. Seems pretty anal to me.

Seems that openSUSE threw in the towel and they try to promote Dolphin + Firefox relationship and, with the current state of Konqueror 4, for me is a wise decision.

That's not entirely correct. For 11.3, the default browser will be re-evaluated again.

einar wrote:That's not entirely correct. For 11.3, the default browser will be re-evaluated again.

Why not?, it's right that software mus't be reevaluated in any new openSUSE release but, probably, fails again.

We can open a Poll. Do you think that Konqueror 4 pass openSUSE test and would be the default browser in openSUSE 11.3?. I don't think so.

Ignacio Serantes wrote:

einar wrote:That's not entirely correct. For 11.3, the default browser will be re-evaluated again.

Why not?, it's right that software mus't be reevaluated in any new openSUSE release but, probably, fails again.

We can open a Poll. Do you think that Konqueror 4 pass openSUSE test and would be the default browser in openSUSE 11.3?. I don't think so.

I'd be more interested in polling people to see how many people are actually using Konqueror as the default web browser. I'll say this much for Konqueror as a web browser: it's my favorite application for downloading Firefox.

Konqueror and KDE are holding each other back. More than anything else, I'd like to see Konqueror removed from the KDE Desktop plan, and given special status as a sort of standalone application under the KDE umbrella, so it can get back to being its own bad self. Konqueror was like all of KDE in one application that you could run with anything. I never run any GUI withoiut running Konqueror. When I'm running fluxbox, xfce, fvwm, or icew, I immediately start konqueror. But even when I run it in Gnome, it remains an extension of KDE. You know what Konqueror does when I run it in a window manager? It conquers that window manager. It claims it for KDE. It extends KDE's vision and influence beyond the KDE desktop. It's great at doing that, but as a default web browser, it's pretty mediocre, at least if you're into that web 2.0 stuff.

Webkitkde ... or kwebkit kpart whatever one likes to call it has seen active rapid development in past months and was not so long ago merged to kdelibs. so AFAIK KDE 4.4 will have two rendering engines in Konqueror to choose webkit or khtml.

That should really solve the problem if not in 4.4 then in 4.5 I guess.

Anyway KDE needs it's own webrowser that integrates nicelly with the environment. Just as was already said having a bit of filemanagment abilities for ftp is quite usefull. Other then that Kget ? Well isn't it nice to have it working with your browser ?

@Ignacio Serantes
I'm sure once webkit kpart is in good shape OpenSuse might actually switch from FF to Konqueror.

val-gaav wrote:@Ignacio Serantes
I'm sure once webkit kpart is in good shape OpenSuse might actually switch from FF to Konqueror.

I don't think so. The new paradigm in browsers is plugins and write a Konqueror plugin is not an easy task for a not high skilled kde c++ developer.

So, if for one side you have Firefox or Chrome, both great browsers with thousand of easy to build community plugins, why change it for a browser with few users and without plugins?.

To file browser there is Dolphin, currently more integrated with KDE than Konqueror, and to integrate your favorite browser with KDE you can use Klipper and regular expressions.

Konqueror it is far reaching Firefox, and even Chrome, because both will be evolved beyond Konqueror can reach them.

As usual, this is a personal point of view .

Konqueror comes with a huge number of features that only exist as plug-ins in Firefox and (sometimes not at all in) Google Chrome, and yet still starts at the same speed as Chrome. Splitting the window? File management capabilities? In-line viewing of and support for several document types via Okular? Adblock, autorefresh, archive web-pages and KGet/Akregator integration? Truly customizable toolbars (try getting the address bar at the bottom of the window in Firefox, or the buttons bar to the side in Chrome - go on, try it), view profiles and session management? Text-to-speech capabilities? Customizable address bar behaviour (Right-click the address bar --> Text Completion... I don't see that many options in either of those - or any, in fact)? Preloaded instances? More powerful identification, cache, cookies, Java and Javascript configuration?

It does an awful lot out-of-the-box and will appeal to an awful lot of users out-of-the-box, if it switches to Webkit as the default rendering engine...

That's true Konqueror has a lot of features out of the box and not in plugins, Some FF plugins are cool sure, but Konqui also gains a lot by being KDE browser and providing superior integration. Also FF is slower on Linux then the Windows version and even with OpenSuse kde integration still uses gtk+ which just isn't KDE.

Opera users somehow do not need plugins because their browser provide so much for them out of the box

Madman wrote:Konqueror comes with a huge number of features that only exist as plug-ins in Firefox and (sometimes not at all in) Google Chrome, and yet still starts at the same speed as Chrome. Splitting the window? File management capabilities? In-line viewing of and support for several document types via Okular? Adblock, autorefresh, archive web-pages and KGet/Akregator integration? Truly customizable toolbars (try getting the address bar at the bottom of the window in Firefox, or the buttons bar to the side in Chrome - go on, try it), view profiles and session management? Text-to-speech capabilities? Customizable address bar behaviour (Right-click the address bar --> Text Completion... I don't see that many options in either of those - or any, in fact)? Preloaded instances? More powerful identification, cache, cookies, Java and Javascript configuration?

It does an awful lot out-of-the-box and will appeal to an awful lot of users out-of-the-box, if it switches to Webkit as the default rendering engine...

1) Splitting the window?
Not useful for me to read a web page, in fact, if I would need this feature that indicates that web page was bad designed. By the way, I always could open a new session of my browser.

2) File management capabilities?
But it's not supposed that now Konqueror developers are focus in do a web browser? Never mind, I have Dolphin that is a better file manager than Konqueror.

3)In-line viewing of and support for several document types via Okular?
I dislike view documents inside browser, when you manage many tabs is confusing so I prefer open documents, as PDF or ODF, in its proper applications and I have an automatic classification for document kind. I right click in Firefox or Chrome, copy, and proper viewer is open, it's really easy with Klipper. On the other side, I'm a fan of Filelight and Gwenview but now both are not integrated in Konqueror 4.

4) Adblock, autorefresh, archive web-pages and KGet/Akregator integration?
Yes, yes, yes, has Konqueror Google RSS integration? (Akregator don't works in my WII neither in my NDS ) and I don't use KGet because I prefer Chrome, Firefox or KDE own downloaders. But no problem, with Klipper, or with a drag&drop, I can download files using KGet like I do to download from Megaupload and Fileshare using JDownloader. Can I download files from Megaupload or Fileshare using Konqueror and KGet?

5) Truly customizable toolbars (try getting the address bar at the bottom of the window in Firefox, or the buttons bar to the side in Chrome - go on, try it),
Yes, really useful, I wonder why this is not mandatory in any browser. But you forget the killer function of konqueror, you can even have url control in a floating toolbar lost in some place of your desktop. But, you know that this was a feature of Qt and not a Konqueror feature . Add, delete and move buttons in a toolbar if enough for 99.99% of users.

6) View profiles and session management?
Yes in Firefox with a plugin but not in Chrome yet. I'm thinking in develop a extension in Chrome to support this feature because was useful and develop Chrome extensions is really easy.

7) Text-to-speech capabilities?
It's funny that you mention this to me. Are you really trying this KTTS with Asian languages? Ktts is as bad as TTS system that I must install Windows SAPI 5 in wine and create one bash scripts and javascript to avoid speak Japanese, Korean and Chinese languages from my KDE.

8 ) Customizable address bar behaviour (Right-click the address bar --> Text Completion... I don't see that many options in either of those - or any, in fact)?
In Firefox and Chrome was automatic, like in KRunner. Even with Chrome you have text completion from Google suggestions and in Firefox the same if you installs Google Toolbar.

9) Preloaded instances?
Yes, with an special application in Firefox and not needed with Chrome. Chrome open fastest than a preloaded Konqueror.

10) More powerful identification
I don't sure what are you talking about. Chrome is the only browser without problems with several Google accounts at same time. I don't need more power.

11)cache, cookies,
Are you joking? No, neither Chrome or Firefox implements cache or cookies this would be an amazing feature of Konqueror, I'm joking . By the way, cookies bugs in Konqueror was terrible this year and was last bug I tolerate before kick off.

12) Java and Javascript configuration?
I never change nothing here in Konqueror but with Firefox I can activate and deactivate javascript with a mouse click in status bar. In Chrome I don't need deactivate Javascript because is really fast and Google warnings me when I enter in a problematic site.

And now the problems with Konqueror:
1) Crash.
2) Problems with Flash. Moonlight plugin don't works.
3) KHTML compatibility.
4) WebKit kpart was in early stages and don't well integrated with KDE. At least the last time I test it a months ago when I still crash, sorry use , Konqueror.
5) Javascript is slow than Firefox or Chrome.
6) With Google Apps works really bad.
7) Lacks of an easy to develop browser plugin/extension system. Some so easy as add a service menu.
8 ) Don't have Google language services integrated.
9) Dolphin is a better file browser.
10) Lacks of Nepomuk integration.
11) Encoding problems and a severe problem with legacy encoding that is marked as WONTFIX. Well, the last is a general Qt4 problem.
12) Search engines had a severe bug with encoding so was unusable outside some western languages. Bug was reported months ago but until a weeks ago Albert Astald Cid, a KDE Spanish developer, discover the bug in his daily usage, bug was not fixed. This was not currently a problem but shows that encoding problems in KDE have the lowest priority, but I'm Spanish, and a Japanese student, so there is very important to me.
13) Integration with Google, or other sites, phishing and malware detection sites system.
14) Search engines don't support OpenSearch.
15) And many more...

As I write before, as browse Konqueror is worst than Firefox and Chrome and, as a file manager, Dolphin is better so, why we must use Konqueror? Obviously Konqueror don't dissapear but will become less used and openSUSE people take a good decision because Konqueror don't pass current quality test.

All my respect to Konqueror 3 and Konqueror 3 developers because they offers me a high quality product with a high experience but, I don't fell the same with Konqueror 4.

Konqueror, we need to talk. Sorry, it's not your fault, it's my fault. Things change and I don't feel the same about you. I need to live a new life, a life with more power and possibilities and you prefer remember our glorious past. I'm so sad but, I'm broking with you .

Totally agree with Ignacio.

I think Konqueror shouldn't disappear, but dropped out as the standard browser. Or, at least, greatly improved. Without KHTML. Any other engine is better than it.

Yeah but all the nagging about it had sense when kdewebkit was not in good shape and it's development was stalled. Right now it's development is rapid and we will for sure see a Konqueror with webkit ... aside from that Rekonq 0,4 will also be ported to use kdewebkit instead of qtwebkit.

Right now we should just be patient

Konqueror doesn't work well with some websites. Things like G-Mail and Blogger. I get: "For a better G-Mail experience, switch to a fully supported browser." And the Google gadgets in my own blog don't show up in Konqueror, 3 or 4.

That's about web browsing, which is a lot more basic to a web browser than split screen and text-to speech stuff. Once again, I'd really like to know who is really using Konqueror for their default browser, instead of a discussion of web browser theory.

val-gaav wrote:Yeah but all the nagging about it had sense when kdewebkit was not in good shape and it's development was stalled. Right now it's development is rapid and we will for sure see a Konqueror with webkit ... aside from that Rekonq 0,4 will also be ported to use kdewebkit instead of qtwebkit.

Right now we should just be patient

Okay, I don't know what kdewebkit is, or what any of that means, but I guess I'll play along. I can still pick my own default browser, my own file manager, and even my own KDE, so there's nothing to complain about.

Delete button?

val-gaav wrote:Right now we should just be patient

Well, I tried to use Konqueror 4 as my main browser since 4.1.0 Beta 1 to 4.3.1 and, for me, is enough.

I'm not saying use it and wait. This topic is about replacing Konqueror by a better browser, since it's a kde forum I guess it's about replacing it in kde, Well there is currently no better KDE browser, and no both FF and Chrome are not even a Qt applications so they cannot be part of KDE.

kdewebkit is Webkit integration for KDE. This plus konqueror webkit kpart means you can use Webkit in KDE/Konqueror instead of khtml ... So it gives you a choice of engine and makes your gmail work like it should.

If you want something now then IMHO Arora 0.10.1 is a nice Qt4 Webkit browser. I'm posting from it right now