Ok, I gave 4.3.2 another look. These are the 12 most nagging things I ran into in the last 2 days:

1) KDE 4 cannot open any files with non-UTF8 encoding in filename. Well, that's known and a wontfix (and a nogo for business).
2) folderview is buggy: location, placement of icons & size of plasmoid are constantly "forgotten" on logout.
3) desktop activity/folderview is buggy: when the panel is located fixed on the left edge of the screen then the icons in folderview move the width of the panel to the left every time I log in, which leads to disappearing icons after some sessions. This occures in all KDE4 releases I've tested.
4) desktop activites/Desktop: No way to add icons by context menu.
5) broken focus model: focus follow mouse + 0.5s raise delay: plasmoids don't get focus. but they produce popups, that won't get the focus either, but react to the mouse position. there's no way o turn the popups off. sometime they diappear when I move the mouse way off, more often they stay. then I have to klick on that thing and press <esc>.
6) I cannot turn off popups for the panel's icons.
7) I cannot turn off popups for the pager.
8 ) konqeror: when closing a tab it activates the left tab, not the right (as 3.5 did).
9) pager is buggy: only the active window is displayed as an outline. only when "show icons" is enabled, it at least shows the icons of some windows on different desktops, but not all.
10) konqueror again, again focus follow mouse + 0.5s raise delay: move mouse oner icon, it gets highlighted, but non of the keyboard commands work (e.g. <F2>). I have to select that item or press rmb to get anything done.
11) kate session viewer is plain useless. instead of an icon which gives me a list when i need it I get a list anytime. that makes it useless on the panel. maybe it would be useful even now if it had grouping, but it hasn't.
12) configuration is still hell but better than 4.2.

comparing KDE 3.5.10 to 4.3.2 I get this "advantages":
- broken focus model
- panel working, but limited in functionality.
- desktop not working, neither folderview nor desktop-mode (I cannot get things done without great afford)
- pager broken to useless.
- encoding problem: I have files that cannot be opened.
- I can place plasmoids - at least I-hate-the-cashew is useful.
- konqeror kind of works, but is limited (I'll never get used to clumsy dolphin)
- ktorrent is slow.

I have not tried pim application, as I don't see the point in trying till the basic things work right. And yes, I'm pretty sure I don't show the right spirit and devotion to the developers, so it's no point stressing that fact.

samhain wrote:Ok, I gave 4.3.2 another look. These are the 12 most nagging things I ran into in the last 2 days:

1) KDE 4 cannot open any files with non-UTF8 encoding in filename. Well, that's known and a wontfix (and a nogo for business).

An oversimplification of the situation, but I acknowledge that there is a problem.

2) folderview is buggy: location, placement of icons & size of plasmoid are constantly "forgotten" on logout.

Not here. I am using 4.3.3, but this was not so on older versions either. Possible causes? Configurations changed by you, changes made by your distro, maybe others.

3) desktop activity/folderview is buggy: when the panel is located fixed on the left edge of the screen then the icons in folderview move the width of the panel to the left every time I log in, which leads to disappearing icons after some sessions. This occures in all KDE4 releases I've tested.

I don't use a folderview desktop, but I do not see this on my desktop. I did see something similar in KDE 4.1.

4) desktop activites/Desktop: No way to add icons by context menu.

Not true, if you use the Folderview desktop type.

5) broken focus model: focus follow mouse + 0.5s raise delay: plasmoids don't get focus. but they produce popups, that won't get the focus either, but react to the mouse position. there's no way o turn the popups off. sometime they diappear when I move the mouse way off, more often they stay. then I have to klick on that thing and press <esc>.

No idea. I don't use focus-follow-mouse.

6) I cannot turn off popups for the panel's icons.

Accepted

7) I cannot turn off popups for the pager.

Probably true. I haven't tried to.

8 ) konqeror: when closing a tab it activates the left tab, not the right (as 3.5 did).

Here it activates the right hand one. Check your settings - maybe you've overridden it.

9) pager is buggy: only the active window is displayed as an outline. only when "show icons" is enabled, it at least shows the icons of some windows on different desktops, but not all.

I don't know where this "show icons" is - care to explain? I see, as I did in KDE 3.5, a translucent depiction of windows open on the desktop in question.

10) konqueror again, again focus follow mouse + 0.5s raise delay: move mouse oner icon, it gets highlighted, but non of the keyboard commands work (e.g. <F2>). I have to select that item or press rmb to get anything done.
11) kate session viewer is plain useless. instead of an icon which gives me a list when i need it I get a list anytime. that makes it useless on the panel. maybe it would be useful even now if it had grouping, but it hasn't.
12) configuration is still hell but better than 4.2.

comparing KDE 3.5.10 to 4.3.2 I get this "advantages":
- broken focus model
- panel working, but limited in functionality.
- desktop not working, neither folderview nor desktop-mode (I cannot get things done without great afford)
- pager broken to useless.
- encoding problem: I have files that cannot be opened.
- I can place plasmoids - at least I-hate-the-cashew is useful.
- konqeror kind of works, but is limited (I'll never get used to clumsy dolphin)
- ktorrent is slow.

I have not tried pim application, as I don't see the point in trying till the basic things work right. And yes, I'm pretty sure I don't show the right spirit and devotion to the developers, so it's no point stressing that fact.

No point in trying to answer any more of your rant, either. Perhaps you should ask yourself why so many things do not work for you when they work for others? Out of the whole of this, the only valid points I've seen are the non-utf-8 characters one, and the inability to turn of tooltips on the panel.

samhain wrote:3) desktop activity/folderview is buggy: when the panel is located fixed on the left edge of the screen then the icons in folderview move the width of the panel to the left every time I log in, which leads to disappearing icons after some sessions. This occures in all KDE4 releases I've tested.

I would give you more karma if I could please add your findings to this bug report: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190374

samhain wrote:5) broken focus model: focus follow mouse + 0.5s raise delay: plasmoids don't get focus. but they produce popups, that won't get the focus either, but react to the mouse position. there's no way o turn the popups off. sometime they diappear when I move the mouse way off, more often they stay. then I have to klick on that thing and press <esc>.

please vote/comment on
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189888

and more karma

2) folderview is buggy: location, placement of icons & size of plasmoid are constantly "forgotten" on logout.

Not here. I am using 4.3.3, but this was not so on older versions either. Possible causes? Configurations changed by you, changes made by your distro, maybe others.

No. It happens on identical installations randomly. I don't know why, but if the problem showes up it does not wanish any more.

I don't use a folderview desktop, but I do not see this on my desktop. I did see something similar in KDE 4.1.

Well, if you do not use folderview it would be quite a surprise if you see it. And you need to have the panel left, otherwise it does not show.

4) desktop activites/Desktop: No way to add icons by context menu.

Not true, if you use the Folderview desktop type.

As said "desktop activites/Desktop", not "desktop activites/folder view".

No idea. I don't use focus-follow-mouse.

try it, you'll be surprised ...

Here it activates the right hand one. Check your settings - maybe you've overridden it.

Could havve change in 4.3.3.

9) pager is buggy: only the active window is displayed as an outline. only when "show icons" is enabled, it at least shows the icons of some windows on different desktops, but not all.

I don't know where this "show icons" is - care to explain? I see, as I did in KDE 3.5, a translucent depiction of windows open on the desktop in question.

maybe got fixed in 4.3.3. Move mouse over pager, RMB -> Pager Settings -> Display icons [X].

Perhaps you should ask yourself why so many things do not work for you when they work for others? Out of the whole of this, the only valid points I've seen are the non-utf-8 characters one, and the inability to turn of tooltips on the panel.

despite the points you have not tested, obviously. and I am pretty sure i am not the only person for whom these things do not work.

@aapgorilla: thanks for the links, I've added my stuff.

One of the things I like a lot of KDE was "KDE is ultraconfigurable" but this paradigm is totally broken in Plasma. There is few configuration options in plasma and I miss things like:

1) Deactivate popups.
2) Deactivate "smart" positioning. Works really bad.
3) Sort mode in panel settings.
4) One process or multiple process for plasmoids (if I have resources I prefer stability over performance).
5) Lock positioning even in resolution changing and manage diferent positions for diferent resolutions. I really have problems with NX because not all computers works in the same resolution.
6) Contextual menu plugins (like Dolphin or konqueror).
7) Manual saving configuration (I loss configuration many times because plasma crash like hell), and deactivate automatic configuration saving. Sometimes I testing new plasmoids or configuration, plasma crash and I have a broken desktop.
8 ) Selective locking plasmoids.
9) DCOP access to individual plasmoids.
10) Management of multiple desktop configurations (like wallpapers or themes).
11) Grid plasmoid positioning.
12) A restarting system (plasma eats more and more resources with time, like Windows, and you need to kill and restart it).
13) You can access to configuration of some plasmoids if desktop is locked.

And probably more if I spend more time thinking. In configuration Plasma is like a Gnome application and in resources is like Windows. I hope one day Plasma would be a real KDE application (configurable and stable).

And, out of plasma, VNC problems is really anoing and there is a lot of work to do with it. A check to deactivate Desktop effects and disable compositing must be implemented.

1) This is a known issue
2) This is valid
3) I am not sure what you mean by this
4) This is infeasible and not going to happen.
5) I submitted a bug about this earlier this year but have not heard anything
6) This is implemented for 4.4
7) This should not be an issue.
8 ) I am not sure how this would be implemented in practice
9) DCOP is not supported by KDE, KDE uses DBUS now
10) There is already a brainstorm idea for this.
11) This is already implemented for 4.4
12) You can already do this, but it should not be an issue.
13) This defeats the purpose of locking.

TheBlackCat wrote:3) I am not sure what you mean by this
4) This is infeasible and not going to happen.
7) This should not be an issue.
8 ) I am not sure how this would be implemented in practice
9) DCOP is not supported by KDE, KDE uses DBUS now
12) You can already do this, but it should not be an issue.
13) This defeats the purpose of locking.

3) Panel setting icons must be sortable like folder view icons.
4) Really bad if I you prefer a stable system. Thanks god when a qt program not all my qt programs neither X crash .
7) Why not? I don't smart enought to determine when I want to save my changes to plasma?. Even word processors have a check to activate autosave or not and, currently, I don't trust much in Plasma automatic systems. Programs trying to be more smart than me an fail miserably, like plasma, makes me mad.
8 ) Again, why?. I can't access to some plasmoids configuration when desktop is locked and, even, I could wish move some of then and lock other.
9) Sorry, obviously I was wrong and you must change DCOP for DBUS. So many years using DCOP .
12) Plasma developers implement the restart on crash, well, sometimes don't work but they sell it as a big improvement in stability. If plasma eats a lot of resources with time a quick method to restart (like activate/deactivate compositing plasmoid or a menu entry) don't souds for me a madness.
13) Folder view, and other implement a submenu to access to settings. Many plasmoids don't implement this context menu, so you must unlock desktop before you can change plasmoid settings. I think that locking is to avoid plamoids change her position but not to avoid operate with then.

For the other points I'm really happy that some people is working in solution but it's really bad that only two will be solved in KDE 4.4.

I forgot and important one, a check to deactivate folder preview in Folder View. I'm sure that many people found useful but, for me, it's anoing and I can't deactivate.

3) I still don't understand. Are you talking about task manager icons? This can already be sorted, just right click on a blanck area, click "configure task manager", and set it to sort by name.

4) The problem is that plasmoids share a lot of underlying resources that can not really be split up.
7) It isn't a matter of you being smart enough, Plasma should be smart enough to know when it needs to save changes. It shouldn't bother you with this sort of thing.
What I am saying is, what would the user interface for this be? Most plasmoids are configured using the pop-up drag bar, which is not present when the plasmoid is locked.
9) Then I am not sure about this, I've never tried.
12) Can't you just kill the process?
13) Because the whole point of locking plasma is to prevent you from changing settings and moving things. That is what locking means. To eliminate that, would be to mean it is no longer locked. It is like locking your screen, but still being able to use your programs. If that is the case your screen isn't locked.

If you have a problem with this, feel free to submit bug reports or brainstorm ideas about them. The only way they are going to get fixed is if people know they are a problem. For instance with 13 that is my opinion, but there is nothing stopping your from submitting a brainstorm idea or bug report about it and find out who more people agree with.

ad 13) Ignacio Serantes points to the little inconsistencies in the plasma disign / desktop design. you cannot really lock that thing, even if you like. that's a pitty, because plasma crashes it's own configs, even when they are "locked". I'm pretty sure that disappearing icons, wandering icons etc. are caused by this.

TheBlackCat wrote:3) I still don't understand. Are you talking about task manager icons? This can already be sorted, just right click on a blanck area, click "configure task manager", and set it to sort by name.

4) The problem is that plasmoids share a lot of underlying resources that can not really be split up.
7) It isn't a matter of you being smart enough, Plasma should be smart enough to know when it needs to save changes. It shouldn't bother you with this sort of thing.
What I am saying is, what would the user interface for this be? Most plasmoids are configured using the pop-up drag bar, which is not present when the plasmoid is locked.
9) Then I am not sure about this, I've never tried.
12) Can't you just kill the process?
13) Because the whole point of locking plasma is to prevent you from changing settings and moving things. That is what locking means. To eliminate that, would be to mean it is no longer locked. It is like locking your screen, but still being able to use your programs. If that is the case your screen isn't locked.

If you have a problem with this, feel free to submit bug reports or brainstorm ideas about them. The only way they are going to get fixed is if people know they are a problem. For instance with 13 that is my opinion, but there is nothing stopping your from submitting a brainstorm idea or bug report about it and find out who more people agree with.

3) Obviously my English is so bad . In plasma you can Add a panel, I have one on bottom and another on the right only with icons. There is no method to sort that icons and icon position change between sessions.
4) Sure, but there is methods like DBUS to share things between process. A single process for all desktop, in my modest opinion, is a defect because a bad developed plasmoid crash all your desktop.
7) The fact is Plasma is not smart enough. The fact is Plasma is stupid doing automatic things so, a check to told Plasma that stop doing stupid things, would be great . The day that Plasma could be capable of save when I really need it, well, that day Plasma not only have an IA, that day Plasma will be implement a mind reading method .
13) seems to samhain understood me.
12) Yes, and I can do a logout or even ALT-F2 and write plasma-desktop and then press intro on plasma crash. I'm not talking about things I could do, the fact is I have a cron job to kill plasma two times a day and works great, the fact is how thing must be.

About locking plasma, obviously, there is more than one point of view and I not sure that my particular point of view would be popular to create a brainstorming.

For me Plasma would be a new paradigm of desktop and application mixture and I think that I can put an Amarok plasmoid in my desktop and a desktop plasmoid in Amarok, or other application that supports plasmoids. In few words, like kparts but more easy. But seems that I was wrong because plasmoids are not evolving to that direction.

Ok, plasma has it's good sides, too. Plasmacon http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.ph ... ent=108120 is what I was missing since I changes from fvwm to kde - a console on my desktop's root window

samhain wrote:Ok, plasma has it's good sides, too. Plasmacon http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.ph ... ent=108120 is what I was missing since I changes from fvwm to kde - a console on my desktop's root window

Well, yes, but this post is about oddities .

Plasma has a big bunch of good things and many terrific plasmoids: magic folder, stdin, scripted html, etc... and, obviously, good things are many more that bad things.

> Well, yes, but this post is about oddities

Right, but I figured out that krunner is quite useless in it's current implementation viewtopic.php?f=66&t=83638 and I am happy to see the first working workaround for a (in my eyes) severe problem.

Speaking of plasma, you know, there are just 3 thing I want:

1) reliably prohibit plasma to fiddle around with configs - something like "do not save session" or how ever it was called on kde 3.5 (where I never needed it)
2) selectivly locking of each single plasmoid (and that that thing does not fiddle around with configs from that point on then)
3) get rid of that damn popups - even when it means to sacrifice some of its "funtionality"

It happens again. I add a new folder view, change its size and position and all is ok. Hours later plasma crash and voilá, I have a folder view with random size and random position. Great!, Xenial!, Cojonudo!, すごいですね！.

By god!!!, is really so difficult add a menu option to SAVE CHANGES or Plasma developers are all infiltrated V lizards, trying to destroy mankind making us mad changing size and position of plasmoids over and over again in a frustrating moebius strip?

But there is hope, and human infiltrated add code to respect manual order of icons in folder view between sessions a months ago..., still there is hope to mankind .

I think that is obvious the pilot I saw a few minutes ago .

I tell you my workaound: I use the immutable flag of ext2 to prohibt changes on configfiles ... my problem is, I have not figured out how that config system really workes, so it's trial and error