I intend to use kde3 for as long as possible.

It suits the way I want to work... and I'm sick of the dismissive attitude from kde4 fanboys.

I'm not saying that kde4 isn't better code, I'm not saying it isn't the right way to go... but I use a desktop computer, not a mobile phone.

If you want to create an interface suitable for knuckledraggers then fine...

I don't want it.

Oceanwatcher wrote:But trying KDE several times did not leave me with something I wanted to use in daily work until KDE4 came along.

May I ask what you used back then?

Oceanwatcher wrote:Can you code? There is a shortage of coders, so if you can, please get involved.
Do you speak more than one language? If so, there is a need for translators.
Are you able to write a tutorial? Do you have some neat tricks that you can tell people about? This is also needed!
There are a lot of other areas where help is needed. Actually, a VERY important one is to dig deep into the system, find the root of bugs and report them. All of these things mean that you spend time helping both yourself and others in the community.

I' too old for that game. I have to kick developer a**** on everydays work - it's not something that espectially brightens my view of KDE4 as it's primary developer driven. What stays it a metadiscussion about the system, the inherent design bugs. Sorry to say, but devs won't get it.

Oceanwatcher wrote:Time to step up and give something back!

I personaly feel by time better invested in FVWM, as I really can use this thing for my appliances

samhain wrote:May I ask what you used back then?

I always use the OS I have to use depending on the application I need. And for part of what I am doing, this means using Windows and Mac. And a few other systems. I am at the point where applications are more important than the OS. After all, the computer is not the point - the work I am doing with the computer is the point. If I am not able to do the work, then the OS is not the right one. So I still work on several systems. This is life.

But for my personal laptop, it is Kubuntu 10.04 with KDE 4.4.5 now.

samhain wrote:I' too old for that game. I have to kick developer a**** on everydays work - it's not something that espectially brightens my view of KDE4 as it's primary developer driven. What stays it a metadiscussion about the system, the inherent design bugs. Sorry to say, but devs won't get it.

Without involving yourself in it, I think you might have a problem deciding if they get it or not. And practical help is the name of the game here. Everyone has an opinion. But unless you can do something practical to back up that opinion, it is not worth much. For a commercial product, you could do it by buying it. But for a free and open source product like this, practical help is the only way.

samhain wrote:I personaly feel by time better invested in FVWM, as I really can use this thing for my appliances

So you found your caclling! I wish you good luck there. Seriously.

What will you be doing for them?

So I still work on several systems. This is life.

Luckily I've overcome that a decade ago.

But for a free and open source product like this, practical help is the only way.

Probaby. But in every project there is a point of no return - either for good or bad. KDE4 has been over that for a while.

samhain wrote:

So I still work on several systems. This is life.

Luckily I've overcome that a decade ago.

Good to hear

samhain wrote:

But for a free and open source product like this, practical help is the only way.

Probaby. But in every project there is a point of no return - either for good or bad. KDE4 has been over that for a while.

Well, if this is your true feeling, I think that anything beyond this point will only be chit-chat. I wish you well in the projects you have both here and in life in general. Life is too short to spend time on projects that you think has no hope.

Oceanwatcher wrote:

samhain wrote:Probaby. But in every project there is a point of no return - either for good or bad. KDE4 has been over that for a while.

Well, if this is your true feeling, I think that anything beyond this point will only be chit-chat. I wish you well in the projects you have both here and in life in general. Life is too short to spend time on projects that you think has no hope.

Oh, it's not that KDE4 is a hopeless project. Indeed, it has improved a lot since I first was forced onto it. At least now I could set up an appliance with KDE4 that does it's duty most of the time. But the basic design has not changed/evolved, and the SPOFs are buried there - and the point of changing that has passed.

That would be a big help to a beginner like me. I hope you could help me with my other queries soon. Keep up the good work guys.

Oceanwatcher wrote:

samhain wrote:May I ask what you used back then?

I always use the OS I have to use depending on the application I need. And for part of what I am doing, this means using Windows and Mac. And a few other systems. I am at the point where applications are more important than the OS. After all, the computer is not the point - the work I am doing with the computer is the point. If I am not able to do the work, then the OS is not the right one. So I still work on several systems. This is life.

What will you be doing for them?

I don't entirely agree with the bolded section above... having to work with the disorganized menu system, the second-rate file management tools, and the lack of virtual workspaces on a Windows box seriously impedes my workflow. I'll routinely be working on six or seven things at onec, and have as many as a dozen windows open... Windows still has no multi-tasking functionality whatsoever. The applications may be more important, but the OS can make it easy or hard to use them.

There's a darker side to this equation as well. Why, exactly, do you think that companies like Adobe still haven't ported their stuff to capture the ever-increasing Linux desktop market? Simple: they've got that market anyway. Nobody is doing without those apps; they're simply running them on a VM or dual-boot. We're shooting ourselves in the foot, people. If it ain't ported for Linux don't buy the app and send the company a polite letter (for God's sake use a spellchecker!!!) explaining that you're not buying it and why.

I have really enjoyed KDE and all the wonderful software different developers have provided for my enjoyment. As an individual with very rudimentary programming skills I am amazed at how KDE has evolved and surpassed my expectations.

Going from KDE3.5 to KDE4, I can't help but feel sorry for developers who invested hundreds of hours making their applications work for KDE3.5 only to find their applications broken in KDE4. It reminds me of the island of lost toys in the Rudolf the Red Nose Reindeer television special.

I am really looking forward to new applications for KDE4, but I hope there is more effort in the future to make sure that base libraries maintain some backward compatibility. The QT libraries seem to have made it possible for developers to implement their software on a wide range of platforms. Virtualbox makes it possible for me to enjoy the best of Open Sourced software, Windows, and Mac all on my Macbook.

I am hoping a virtual installation of KDE3.5 will let me enjoy the best of MAC and KDE3.5. I really hope that developers do not get too discouraged, and that the time and effort programmers poured into KDE3.5 was not wasted.

The libraries of the KDE development platform keep compatibility for several years, e.g. applications build against libraries from the 3.0.0 release in April 2002 will still work against libraries from th 3.5.10 release in August 2008.

Moreover, libraries are versioned on filename basis so the can be installed in parallel, thus allowing applications developed against libraries from a release of the 3.x servies to run side by side with applications developed against libraries of any release of the 4.x series.

Cheers,
_

Thanks for the information about libraries.

I am fairly happy to have a version of kde3.5 running in virtualbox. I have relied mostly on mandriva for obtaining a kde desktop, and should maybe throw off that safety blanket. I spent several hours looking around this website and others for Quanta, and an hour or two using Kate, before I downloaded an older more comfortable mandriva distribution for me.

During the time I spent looking, I read a lot of posts about people upset about missing programs or features. I really appreciate everything the open source community has given me. Ultimately virtualization seems to have created a great way for me to continue using some great tools I've come to depend on. I hope it is possible for me to accomplish similar things with libraries once I've taken the training wheels off.

What I worry about is developers losing interest in kde if they are required to invest additional time to make something work in kde4 that was stable in kde3. I want to emphasize that this isn't meant as a complaint, I just don't want to see past accomplishments wasted or abandoned.

I would like to see kde evolve and obviously that means kde4 but there are many things from kde3.5 that are worth saving!

I spent several hours looking around this website and others for Quanta, and an hour or two using Kate, before I downloaded an older more comfortable mandriva distribution for me.

If you're having trouble finding a package, always try checking your distro's forums first. KDE really has no control over what distros include.

Madriva makes it harder than it should be. Most distro's I've tried include Quanta in their repos by default. For Mandriva 2010.x you must follow these directions:

http://forum.mandriva.com/en/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=133922