Hi.
I'm new here, and i wanted to share with you some of things that I've been thinking about lately. But for you to understand it better, you need to hear my story.

Since I'm a gentoo user, I've been using KDE 3.5 until some months ago. And it was awesome. Previously I used Gnome on Ubuntu, which at begging was nice and everything but after I learned some things about linux it got annoying (and ubuntu too). After I removed ubuntu and installed gentoo, I was searching for new DE, that would be better than gnome. I tried XFCE, LXDE and some more, but they were or lacking something, or they just didn't felt right to me. I understood that my problem lies not in DE but in libraries they were based on (GTK). I remembered that at my beginning with linux, i was using KDE (on slackware btw.) So i thought "Why don't i try it again?" I installed it, and after 2 days do using it i was feeling like i found heaven.
Some months ago KDE 3.5 was marked as obsolete by gentoo dev team, and they switched to KDE4. I thought that, since it's new version and all, it should be better. So I upgraded my system.
Right now, after using KDE4 for more then 5 months I'm getting feeling like I got when i was using gnome. Something isn't right. I was using KDE 3.5 for nearly 2 years and never got that feeling.
Maybe KDE4 is too fancy for me, with all this plasma, plasmoids and everything. I just don't like it.
Right now I'm struggling to install KDE3.5 from overlay, but I'm little afraid if it will work like it was working before since it don't get any love right now.

I was wondering if it would be possible to keep the KDE 3.5 alive as the lightweight option of KDE (yes, right now it would be lightweight), and as solution for all those persons like me, who don't like the KDE4.
Is there someone out there who thinks like me?

KDE 3 can stay alive as long as people are willing to put in the effort to support it. But there aren't really that many such people around. I personally think it would be much better if the people who wanted to do this would instead put their effort into implementing the features from 3.5 that are missing in KDE 4 so that KDE 3.5 is no longer needed.

Maybe You are right about features, but i feel that there are too many of them, and for me implementing the features i lack would mean writing again whole panels/plasma/desktop thing since I don't really like how it works in KDE4.
I would support the KDE 3.5 if only I could. I'm not a programmer (but I don't mind learning though, if someone would give me a clear guide how to learn real programming). I even thought about taking whole KDE 3.5 and somehow porting it to QT4 (if it is possible) since QT3 is obsolete, but as I wrote, I just don't know how.
Maybe I'm just trolling right now, but that's how I feel.

I'm not sure what you mean by "like how it works", you can set it up to work pretty much the same in KDE 4 as it was in KDE 3. You can do a lot more with it in KDE 4, but there is very little that has been lost in terms of the desktop and panel. What, specifically, are your problems?

Look at this.
Since I use widescreen, i would like to put my panel on the side of the screen, but apparently it breaks if I try.
Second thing I don't like is how are theming manged. Panel and plasmoids have their own themes, windows have their own, and i just can't find plasma theme i would like...
Maybe for You those aren't problems but for me they are. And there's a lot more problems like phonon not working well and turning off sound randomly, random plasma crashes and biggest of them I can't get KDE4 to work on my portable since it's too heavy for it.

TheBlackCat wrote:you can set it up to work pretty much the same in KDE 4 as it was in KDE 3. You can do a lot more with it in KDE 4

No, you can't. E.g.: there are still the disgusting pupups everywhere on plasma. I know, there's a sombody on the buglist that told the would make that stuff configurabe on 4.5.something. s0ltys mentioned the panel problem already. The list is long, if you dare to compare.

As I see it in my business, old time users are turned away by KDE4, most likely never to come back. Some keep KDE3.5, some (cooperate desktops) move to GNOME (if they ever were on KDE), others move on to "lightweigt" DE (some very configurablewindowmanager + what ever they need for work).

I think the complains about KDE4 will vanish, as more and more power users find better alternatives. That is , there will never be a prolonged live of KDE 3.5. I maybe a year it's gone forever.

samhain wrote:As I see it in my business, old time users are turned away by KDE4, most likely never to come back. Some keep KDE3.5, some (cooperate desktops) move to GNOME (if they ever were on KDE), others move on to "lightweigt" DE (some very configurablewindowmanager + what ever they need for work).

Obviously, you cannot please everyone. As you can see from my signature, I'm a really old time kde user but I must say I feel at home with kde 4.3.5.
What many people tend to forget is that 3.5.10 was so good because versions from 3.0 up to 3.5.something were not so good. I still remember the miracle of the multiplying toolbars on konqueror, or the funny notifications that appeared half on the screen and half (unreadable) outside... and many other nuisances.
4.3.x is in much better shape than 3.3.x ever was. But now we have 4.4, and in some months 4.5...
I'm really happy with kde4 development.

TheBlackCat wrote:KDE 3 can stay alive as long as people are willing to put in the effort to support it. But there aren't really that many such people around. I personally think it would be much better if the people who wanted to do this would instead put their effort into implementing the features from 3.5 that are missing in KDE 4 so that KDE 3.5 is no longer
needed.

Free software is a developer's game. Among users, I still only know one person in real life who prefers KDE 4, If you go to distrowatch, the interest in Kubuntu in terms of hits has gone through the basement compared to the KDE3 days. Right now, Ubuntu is number 1 in the ranking, Kubuntu is number 19! If the users had any say, you'd still be able to use KDE3, but the users have no say. It's really the developers and the distros who are driving this process and making the decisions. And yes, that IS a lot better than the Microsoft board of directors.

The thing is, KDE4 development has reached the point where I can't really tell you why I don't like it. It's certainly not a matter of missing features. It just feels complicated and icky. All those plasmoids and themes get in the way. Whenever I stop being frustrated, I'm about to become bored. Perhaps I'm just thinking about it too much. I'm sure a lot of it is just me... but who the hell else am I supposed to be?

Now, the KDE team has done a great job of responding to people's complaints, and while I don't care much for the desktop, and use Gnopme or XFCE most of the time now, there's A LOT to love about the new KDE applications. I have come to appreciate Dolphin, and most of my problems with Konqueror have been resolved. KDE still has the best applications I know of, and they have gotten better.

There are options for diehards. There is still Timothy Pearson, bravely releasing a KDE3 version of Kubuntu every six months. I could kiss the man just for being such a stubborn ****. I created a live CD based on Slax that I continue to update. Live CDs are a great way to use older software securely.

Keeping KDE3 alive is a losing game. Good luck, I hope you do it, but as one who got way too angry and complained way too much about KDE4, I have figured out how to make the most of the way it is and get by.

blackbelt_jones wrote:Free software is a developer's game. Among users, I still only know one person in real life who prefers KDE 4, If you go to distrowatch, the interest in Kubuntu in terms of hits has gone through the basement compared to the KDE3 days. Right now, Ubuntu is number 1 in the ranking, Kubuntu is number 19! If the users had any say, you'd still be able to use KDE3, but the users have no say. It's really the developers and the distros who are driving this process and making the decisions. And yes, that IS a lot better than the Microsoft board of directors.

I'm not sure Kubuntu is a valid example for your argument as it is a poor relation in the Ubuntu family, getting fewer resources and love from Canonical and from many of the reviews I've seen it's not one of the better kde4 implementations available. Also, historically speaking I don't remember it ever being that high in the Distro Watch rankings.

s0ltys wrote:Maybe I'm just trolling right now, but that's how I feel.

Don't worry about that - as long as you're respectful, people are generally happy to answer your questions. Trolling is to flame on purpose - not quite what you're doing as far as I can see.

I would support the KDE 3.5 if only I could. I'm not a programmer (but I don't mind learning though, if someone would give me a clear guide how to learn real programming). I even thought about taking whole KDE 3.5 and somehow porting it to QT4 (if it is possible) since QT3 is obsolete, but as I wrote, I just don't know how.

If you plan to port all KDE3 applications, prepare to spend much time and effort. Qt4 is very different from Qt3, and a lot of code will probably have to be rewritten.

KDE Software is mostly written in C++. If you want to learn, I recommend you to buy a C++ book and get a solid foundation in the language. Afterwards you can learn Qt3/Qt4 from online tutorials/code/books.

I agree with TheBlackCat that the best solution is to contribute to the 4 series instead of trying to keep KDE3 alive, though.

Since I use widescreen, i would like to put my panel on the side of the screen, but apparently it breaks if I try.

These are bugs in the widgets and shouldn't be too hard to fix.
By the way, it looks quite fine here in 4.4.2:

Second thing I don't like is how are theming manged. Panel and plasmoids have their own themes, windows have their own, and i just can't find plasma theme i would like...

Creating a theme is much easier than porting KDE3 to Qt4 you just need to now how to handle SVG files.
http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tut ... asma/Theme

There are also many themes on http://kde-look.org, for example this Klassik theme.

And there's a lot more problems like phonon not working well and turning off sound randomly, random plasma crashes

This all sounds like issues that can be improved. And you can help by reporting crashes - you should get a dialog when something crashes that will tell you more. No programming skills needed.

and biggest of them I can't get KDE4 to work on my portable since it's too heavy for it.

What kind of hardware? RAM memory and graphic card are most interesting, since these seem to be common bottle necks.

I have tried kubuntu 9.10 (kde 4.3.2), and indeed I also experienced a a lot of plasma crashes, but since I moved to mint 8 kde edition (kde 4.3.5), I didn't have any crash, it's rock solid.

If you skim through messages you'll see the 8/10 serious problems with KDE 4 at this time come from kubuntu users. The current release does seem to have some real problems.

samhain wrote:I see it in my business, old time users are turned away by KDE4, most likely never to come back.

I don't want to rake over this old subject really as I know it is a tired subject, but I would like to give my opinion as someone who is a new KDE 3.5 user.

I am new to linux altogether actually, with only about 6 months use under my belt. My first experience of KDE was 4.3, and I liked it better than I liked GNOME or any other DE I had tried up to that time. I have stuck with KDE4.x since, as despite the annoyances it is still the most functional option I think.

BUT I recently installed Scientific Linux (Red Hat 5.4 basically) for a project where I need mega stability, and discovered KDE 3.5! Wow. I am so sad that this is no longer supported, as I would quite happily use 3.5 over 4.x any day, every day.

There seems to be loads of little things that just make you smile in 3.5, things that just work a little better or quicker, or add a bit more functionality or simplicity. Fewer distracting pop ups, and no cursed 'widgets' (does anybody actually have any use for these things?).

It honestly feels to me like I've just discovered KDE 5.0 - the release which happens after whole 'semantic desktop' period has been consigned to the past.

I disagree completely. I just used KDE 3.5 a week ago, it was a horrible experience, I am really glad I don't have to use it.

I suppose it just depends on what you want to use your desktop for, but for serious productivity i'd take 3.5 every time. Just expressing my opinion though, and drawing a predictably OTT response from a mod - "Horrible experience?" Really?

I only really wanted to point out that there is a market for 3.5 beyond longtime KDE users who are reluctant to learn new things - a lot of new users would probably prefer it as well.

I hope someone does take up the baton though and keep maintaining 3.5, it would be a crying shame to lose it. Are the Chakra devs planning on maintaining it, I think I read that somewhere?