I love the KDE 4 series and am constantly amazed at how it is shaping.

That said, do you get tired of trying to explain to KDE 3.5.x users that 4 is not Gnome and not evil/stupid/insulting, or whatever is thrown out.

The latest one I heard was about the folder plasmoids. The usual complaining about how they don't want it (and therefore no one does) was going on so I explained that the desktop with icons "feature" that they were so sorely missing was present in trunk and would be back for 4.2.

The response was basically: so what? It should have been there was 4.1.

Of course, the same thing with the menu, dolpin, konqueror, and the usual.

the arguments are very circular and facts do not seem to matter.

Do you still bother with them or do you just let them rant? (I would let them rant but I don't want other users basing their opinion on KDE based on a few, very vocal naysayers.)

Those 'circular' arguments have a lot to do with taste, unwillingness to try something new and are sometimes even just ventilations of other frustrations that didn't get the needed attention otherwise.

As developers, we always live in the future, we're running the systems that have often fixed issues that pop up months later when users actually get their hands on the software we produce. It actually happens very often that particular issues have already been identified and fixed upstream.

Often, things are also based on misinformation or misunderstanding, helping out with accurate information can be very useful to people reading the comments.

Well i think rants are intresting,but maybe thats beackuse i my self are prone 2 rant.

And btw i dont like the word rant as it like saying just beackuse you feal a certan way your oppnion isent worh anything.

well maybenot worth so mouch to the developers who have a diffrent mindset and aproch to it, but for regular yousers i think its intresting to se how things are recived.

and more intresting what cind of usage model the are using in theier desktop env, cause mouch of the critics about kde4 is about the knew vay of doing things.

and i pearsonly would have liked one more alternative that would have gone in the way of the complainers have walid points,then whe would have sean how the comunity realy feals about it...[hr]

sebas wrote:Those 'circular' arguments have a lot to do with taste, unwillingness to try something new and are sometimes even just ventilations of other frustrations that didn't get the needed attention otherwise.

Well ppl in genral are creaturs of habit, some respond better to changes and some respond werry werry bad to changes.

and when ppl have had along time of making a hibbit they naturly get very frustrated and not all of them vill go forward and test the new stuff.

but then thers always new recruts that havent ben happy in the model that they ben using and the comes on and find that kde4 is the place for them to be.
its nothing thats gonan go avay anytime soon raly,but it s going to deminichesh as the prjoct matures and get new old featurs..

I used to defend but then after a few quick calculations I realised that the time I was taking defending was greater than the time it would have taken to actually add the features they were complaining about. If someone starts arguing about something that will be done by the next release and they reject my response I just give them the "use whatever you like best" line and let them go on their way. Free software is about freedom of choice, nobody is forcing you to use KDE 4. As for missing features the developers will eventually get around to adding everything that was in KDE 3.5, programming is not an instantaneous art and we do know that if the features are not added we are basically strangling ourselves with regressions--not a good thing.

I definitely do as most of the complaints circle around the issue of UI configurability , as well as a lot of old (4.0x era) and mostly obsolete criticisms found in now outdated blog and forum rants people dig up or remember.

Just tonight I had to post a screenshot of Konqueror with a 3-pane view to prove that someone's perception that it had been removed was false.

As (in my case) Kubuntu Intrepid nears final release, I have seen many of the issues rants and complaints die off as things have stabilized so I don't find myself having to dig in my heels as much.

I'm using 4.1 but frankly I can't blame anyone for freaking out about the state of things. I mean, come on you have to admit there are some regressions here and there, and a lot of things lack the configurability KDE users are accustomed to. Telling someone their workflow is "outdated" does nothing to convince them that the new direction is good in its own right.

IMHO nobody should be "defending" KDE 4 at this point. They should be asking why people who loved KDE 3.x aren't understanding the new features and getting excited about them.

Usually yes. I don't defend KDE4 itself (actually still prefer the 3.5 series), but rather try to correct misinformed users (e.g. when they complain that they can't use the desktop in the traditional way).

However, seeing all those "KDE4 sucks" posts, I've come to the conclusion that my time can be used in a much better way.

KDE 4 is on the right way.
There are still enough things to fix and improve but (thanks for the developers) it's better with every new version. For new KDE users the right choice is the 3.5.x.

^^ The KDE 4 sucks posts are very annoying. It isn't sucks, just need to hack little bit these config files, or wait for the next update.

Hans wrote:Usually yes. I don't defend KDE4 itself (actually still prefer the 3.5 series), but rather try to correct misinformed users (e.g. when they complain that they can't use the desktop in the traditional way).

However, seeing all those "KDE4 sucks" posts, I've come to the conclusion that my time can be used in a much better way.

Try running Xmonad on top of KDE...

http://xmonad.org/

RobinHood wrote:

Hans wrote:Usually yes. I don't defend KDE4 itself (actually still prefer the 3.5 series), but rather try to correct misinformed users (e.g. when they complain that they can't use the desktop in the traditional way).

However, seeing all those "KDE4 sucks" posts, I've come to the conclusion that my time can be used in a much better way.

Try running Xmonad on top of KDE...

http://xmonad.org/

How is that related to my post? :P

God, the condescension!

Why is it misinformed to want to use the desktop in a traditional way? Nontraditional can be better, but why is it automatically better? If there's some kind of logic behind "it's worked this way for 25 years, so it has to go.", I'm all ears, but it's just taken for granted.

Why do you assume that we were unwilling to try KDE4? The fact is I have spent hundreds of hours with KDE4, and I actually like it. I just don't want to have to use it all the time. I certainly don't want to force you to use what I like.

Kubuntu has just dropped KDE3, so maybe I'm going to be forced to use what you like. Where do you get off being so condescending and annoyed about that?

blackbelt_jones wrote: Why is it misinformed to want to use the desktop in a traditional way?

I never said that. I said that users who complain about not being able to use the desktop in a traditional way are misinformed. Because you can do that in KDE4 (if "traditional way" means "place icons on the desktop"). Here's a screenshot I made for another user here:



Just ignore the widgets to the right and you have something close to a KDE3 desktop. Sure, all features aren't there yet, but KDE4 is still young.

Why do you assume that we were unwilling to try KDE4? The fact is I have spent hundreds of hours with KDE4, and I actually like it. I just don't want to have to use it all the time. I certainly don't want to force you to use what I like.

Kubuntu has just dropped KDE3, so maybe I'm going to be forced to use what you like. Where do you get off being so condescending and annoyed about that?

Err. Are you blaming me for Kubuntu's choice of desktop environment? And for your information, I still prefer the 3.5.x series and currently use KDE 3.5.7.

Hans wrote:

RobinHood wrote:

Hans wrote:Usually yes. I don't defend KDE4 itself (actually still prefer the 3.5 series), but rather try to correct misinformed users (e.g. when they complain that they can't use the desktop in the traditional way).

However, seeing all those "KDE4 sucks" posts, I've come to the conclusion that my time can be used in a much better way.

Try running Xmonad on top of KDE...

http://xmonad.org/

How is that related to my post? :P

I am so sorry..it was mistake but you can try anywhere

No worries, you just got me confused there. Thanks for the tip.

Well, sorry I got so worked up. Have a great weekend, everybody?