Hi,

this question is in my head for quite a while and as I see it, in this forums there a lot of people who are close or involved with KDE - so my question may get a good answer.

I am a satisfied user of KDE. I used 3.5 for a while but it was too messed up for me. So I turned to Gnome and as 4.2 came out I was back. Since then I use KDE only.
Especially 4.5 and 4.6 were really great.

So now we have 4.7... and I must say: not good, guys

I don´t wanna complain, I just want to ask a question because it is important for me:

Is KDE still the right one for me? I need a desktop that works. 4.5 and 4.6 did this job in a perfect way. 4.7 is starting to make my fuses glow.

Thats why I would like to know:

How is the roadmap? As far as I understood, the major versions bring new features and no bugfixes. So KDE 4.8 will then bring new features and the bugs of 4.7, if they are not fixed in minor versions of 4.7, will stay unfixed. Is this right?
Will there be bugfixing for older bugs too? So for example bugs, found in 4.6 or 4.7, will they maybe being fixed in 4.8.1? Or is it just fixing the newer bugs which occur in 4.8?

so summary: is there still hope to get a working desktop environment in KDE as it was in 4.6 or should I search for a different one? I know, this sounds like trolling. But it is not. It is just straight asking. I just want to go by facts, because, as I wrote: I need a working system and I am thinking about "should I stay or should I go?" for a while now. That´s why an answer on the roadmap question is really important for me. Would be great to get one!

thanks
Steffen

How is the roadmap?

Some helpful links

As far as I understood, the major versions bring new features and no bugfixes. So KDE 4.8 will then bring new features and the bugs of 4.7, if they are not fixed in minor versions of 4.7, will stay unfixed. Is this right?

No, this is wrong. KDE SC 4.8 brings bugfixes as well as new features.

Will there be bugfixing for older bugs too? So for example bugs, found in 4.6 or 4.7, will they maybe being fixed in 4.8.1? Or is it just fixing the newer bugs which occur in 4.8?

No bugs from all versions are being squashed. 4.8.1 will just bring more fixes, as will 4.8.2 and 4.9 and...

Should I stay or should I go?

This you'll have to anwser yourself. Either way good luck!

Have a nice day
Maarten

Thanks, this is what I was searching for.

It would also help if you could specify what problems you have with 4.7. In my experience it has only become better and better, but of course sometimes new problems are introduced, although it's not always KDE's fault.
For example, after my latest minor version upgrade (4.7.3 -> 4.7.4) my compositing has become completely broken. I have yet to track down the problem, but it could also be because of the update of graphic drivers.

I am (or was) not really sure.... because when I write a list of my problems with 4.7 then it maybe becomes a troll-thread... ?

but, okay you asked for it, here it is. The problems are not major, but it gets annoying and frustrating, because it adds up.

1. Kmail2. A complete disaster. I mean, I did not expect it to work perfect, but... Sometimes (these occasions get more and more) it can not fetch E-Mails from my google IMAP account. It also can not send mails. I know why, but I don´t know how to fix this.
The reason is: Kwallet closes the wallet and Kmail2 can not open it. Neither can the user. The solution is: restart the system. I just want to send an E-mail. No need to pretend that I want to start a Mars Mission.
This wouldn´t be an issue, if kmail2 wouldn´t force the user to use Kwallet. But during setup, a whole bunch of failure messages and so on are bombed on the user. Moreover: Kmail2 can not store passwords. Don´t know if this is true, but I had to use Kwallet because Kmail2 could not do anything without it.
Now Thunderbird does the job. It does it perfectly.

2. Systemsettings crashes all the time. I couldn´t set my Audio settings for Skype. Because systemsettings did not apply my changes after it crashed. I had to install a Gnome program (pavucontrol) to do the job. Unbelievable.

3. Amarok stops after each track in the playlist. Couldn´t figure out what was wrong. Had to reinstall the system because of that. Deleting the settings folders of Amarok did not help

4. Konqueror is shaky like a leaf in the wind. Please no Javascript! Konqueror in KDE 4.6 was the best browser I ever used. Fast, stable, great. In 4.7? WTF?

5. Gwenview is lame like a snail. It almost freezes the whole system everytime I start it. The System is an AMD Athlon Duo 6000+ and 6 Gb RAM. Too weak for Gwenview?

6. Strigi, but this is just a minor thing because I don´t care anymore. Strigi eats system resources like nothing else. When it has finished indexing, it starts over. Even without any change to the files. This wouldn´t be an issue if it wouldn´t eat all the resources. But in my case, it slows down a reasonable fast system. Imagine what happens when I start Gwenview while Strigi is running... The whole system stops for a moment.

All this (besides Strigi - this was also before 4.7) was not the case in KDE 4.6 and 4.5. Even 4.4 and 4.3 were not that bad.

I need a system which works. 4.7 doesn´t cope with the job. Because when I need to install a whole bunch of tools from outside of KDE, I don´t need KDE anymore. I then also can use a different desktop which works without workarounds and installing additional tools.
This is why I wanted to know if there is still hope or if I can leave it and search for something else.
Leaving it is okay. I also left Gnome without a word. I just need to know it. And now I know that there is still hope and I will wait for 4.8. and in the meantime make myself familiar with XFCE.

I don't use KMail and Konqueror so I can't really comment on those. I think KMail 2 had many things changed under the hood (such as port to Akonadi); the problems will most likely be ironed out over time.

I can't reproduce your problems with System Settings, Amarok, Gwenview and Strigi. The System Settings problem in particular sounds strange - are you sure it's not something wrong with your system? Regarding Amarok, it could have something to do with your Phonon backend. I use the VLC backend and it's worked well for me.
Nepomuk/Strigi has only become better and better in the recent releases. If you don't have any important data stored in the Nepomuk database, you might want to start one from scratch.

It's worth noting is that these are just applications, it's perfectly fine to use other applications but still use e.g. KDE Plasma Desktop, or vice versa. You don't have to go "KDE only" or "GNOME only" etc.

I am quite sure that my system is okay. It is a quite fresh install and I didn't do anything wrong with it (as far as I know )

for the problem with systemsettings there are some Bugreports already in bug.kde.org. This must be a fairly new one. I also sent one in.

The Amarok problem is gone after a re-install. But it is strange and I was really annoyed that I had to do a new install of the system.

Gwenview got better over time. We now have 4.7.4 and openSUSE 12.1 started with 4.7.2. In the released state, Gwenview wasn´t usable at all and now it runs fairly good. So I see some progress.

It's worth noting is that these are just applications, it's perfectly fine to use other applications but still use e.g. KDE Plasma Desktop, or vice versa. You don't have to go "KDE only" or "GNOME only" etc.

I know. But I like the KDE programs. I like Gwenview, for example. And there is no better picture tool than Digikam. Also Amarok: what´s better than that?
Right now I have just non-KDE tools for all the daily tasks, except for the music. But I want to use the KDE tools. Especially because I know that they are great and have a lot of nice features.

ah, and I forgot one issue, I have:

- the desktop often does not load in the right way on my Laptop either. I have choosen "folder view" as default and sometimes it does not load the icons on the desktop. The Button for the settings (ex "Cashew") is halfway on the height on the right hand side (not on top anymore) and I can not do anything on the desktop. Restart solves it sometimes.

Could you try getting a backtrace for the System Settings issue? Given your problems with both Amarok and System Settings, and that your issue with System Settings involved audio settings, it seems quite probable that a bad Phonon backend (or bad plugin to the backend) is most certainly involved here.

For Gwenview, how big are the folders you are browsing with? Do you have thumbnailing enabled? Have you tried removing ~/.thumbnails/?

bcooksley wrote:Could you try getting a backtrace for the System Settings issue? Given your problems with both Amarok and System Settings, and that your issue with System Settings involved audio settings, it seems quite probable that a bad Phonon backend (or bad plugin to the backend) is most certainly involved here.

For Gwenview, how big are the folders you are browsing with? Do you have thumbnailing enabled? Have you tried removing ~/.thumbnails/?

I did a backtrace for the Systemsettings issue and I also reported a Bug on this in bugs.kde.org. The report-number is 291931. There are already some bugreports which are related to this issue, so it seems like that it is a known problem. It also seems like that it is a 4.7-only issue.

To me it looks like that the Amarok and Systemsettings issues are two different ones. Because after the re-install of the system, the Amarok issue is gone, but the Systemsettings issue persists.

Gwenview... my pictures folder is 32 Gb Don´t know if this is big. But it is divided in several (213) sub-folders. I have the settings in Gwenview, that it always shows just one picture when I open a particular picture. No Thumbnail view.
Although I don´t know... it must load the other pics in this folder too, right?
I removed the ~/.thumbnails/ folder. No effect.

So the conclusion for me is that I wait and keep my fingers crossed that KDE 4.8 will be a real corker.

One big issue for me is: KDE PIM. How can we, the users, help to improve it?
My impression on KDE PIM is, that the overall idea with Akonadi and all the applications in a so to say "Network" is really great. Its a cool idea.
But there are too many interfaces, too many connections in this "Network" and when one of these interfaces has a bad setting or whatever, the whole "Network" breaks and the user doesn´t have any chance to fix it. Because he doesn´t know how this "Network" is built up. KISS anyone?

To get my address book working in KDE PIM 1, it took me 1 day of google-ing. Which user who is maybe new to Linux or KDE, does invest one day on that? In Thunderbird it is just importing a .ldif file.
Trying to get google calendar working in KDE PIM is still an open issue. And I invested several days on it. Even in KDE PIM 1, not KDE PIM 2. In both KDE PIM´s: no chance.
Thunderbird has it with an Add-on. Some clicks, some copying of links, that´ s it. Easy enough.

And there it is, the complaint...

This is a symptomatic example about, what concerns me. Because in KDE PIM, we don´t see any progress. There may be progress under the hood, but the user doesn´t see/realise it.
So the overall impression is that KDE got semi-stuck. That on some places there is a lot of innovation but the rest can not keep up and because of that, it all becomes kind of unfinished... like a ship with a heavy list.

To me the real challenge is that even if you offer a great selection of programs and apps and in these programs a lot of features: it must be simple and easy for the user to use them and to set them up. KDE PIM is the opposite of that.
Digikam is a great example for what I mean. Amarok too. Dolphin also. And as an example for a PIM application: Evolution. If all it´s notification pop-ups would work in KDE, I would use it, instead of Thunderbird.
If I was the guy in charge for KDE PIM, I would port Evolution to KDE. Or at least take over the essential parts of it. Okay, with that he would lose recognition as the KDE PIM guy, but he would gain recognition for being really clever

screwdriver0815 wrote:Trying to get google calendar working in KDE PIM is still an open issue.

If you use akonadi-google (some distributions are packaging it already; notice it must not be confused with "akonadi-googledata" which is basically unmaintained) it pretty much becomes a non-issue. I'm using that daily and it works OK.

Your System Settings crash is caused by the now deprecated Xine backend - or more precisely Xine itself. Removing the Xine backend from your system and ensuring that either the VLC or GStreamer backends are installed (with appropriate codecs) should ensure a smooth operation of audio on your system.

einar wrote:

screwdriver0815 wrote:Trying to get google calendar working in KDE PIM is still an open issue.

If you use akonadi-google (some distributions are packaging it already; notice it must not be confused with "akonadi-googledata" which is basically unmaintained) it pretty much becomes a non-issue. I'm using that daily and it works OK.

I don´t touch KDE PIM anymore. But thanks for the tip.

bcooksley wrote:Your System Settings crash is caused by the now deprecated Xine backend - or more precisely Xine itself. Removing the Xine backend from your system and ensuring that either the VLC or GStreamer backends are installed (with appropriate codecs) should ensure a smooth operation of audio on your system.

I will try that. Normally I have some strange lagging in some songs when using Gstreamer. Don´t know why. That is why I always use Xine. I did not know that it is deprecated, but was wondering why it isn´t default anymore.

It's deprecated because xine is more or less dead itself.