Text usage for comic creators usually means:

• Switching around a lot between a number of commonly used fonts (for example, for dialogue, sfx, etc.)
• Using bubbles (after looking at a few dozen comics online, I can say that both hand-drawn and pre-rendered bubbles are commonly used by comic creators, so having a good in-built preset will definitely be helpful to many)
• Using deforms for SFX

With that in mind, I propose the following general interface:



This concept is based on Krita's existing brush presets system, except it applies to text instead (and of course, you can make your own presets). Also, to make features easy to find for users, some presets come with these features included, so the workflow becomes:
1. Choose preset and click to add the text + extra features (ex.: bubbles, deforms)
2. Edit said features After (example: you can choose a preset with text along a path or a circle, then edit said path/circle afterwards)

Instead of:
1. Type text
2. Find the feature somewhere in the menus to add it

The interface would re-use Krita's familiar brush drop-down interface and right-click system, but adapted to text. In particular, the right-click menu will allow you to easily add whatever features you're missing (if you want to add a quick text outline, bubble, or path deform for example). Tabs will then appear within the right-click menu for you to access more options. Right-clicking on a specific part of the text group (ex.: on the bubble) will also automatically open the sub-tab for that feature.

Some features are preset in Inkscape and Clip Studio, but I do believe that no other program has this overall interface.

Hey, thanks for the mock-up.

We probably won't be doing on-canvas text-editing though.



I also like the idea of a preset-panel for text styles, but not sure if this should look like the brush-settings dropdown.

I am also very fond of the deforms, and technically, we'll need them for devaganari/arabic+text-on-path (though, no svg viewer actually supports this)

TheraHedwig wrote:We probably won't be doing on-canvas text-editing though.

What do you mean? You mean you can only edit the text via some dialogue or the likes?

I also like the idea of a preset-panel for text styles, but not sure if this should look like the brush-settings dropdown.

I like the brush settings dropdown because you can stuff a lot of features in it, and it's also a familiar interface to Krita users. Trying to stuff everything into tool options becomes cumbersome when you start to require visual features like balloon styles, textures etc. Also, I'd like Krita to have a font selection that shows several fonts per line in a big area, instead of a text-only dropdown. This way it'd be easier to spot which fonts you want. That'd need space however, hence the drop-down. I mean, imagine selecting brush tips with a traditional drop-down.

The other thing is, I'm suggesting to have something similar for vectors. I have a quick interface here:
viewtopic.php?f=137&t=130747#p350357
So if you have drop-downs for brushes and vectors, might as well have the same thing for text.

I am also very fond of the deforms, and technically, we'll need them for devaganari/arabic+text-on-path (though, no svg viewer actually supports this)

Some deform options are hidden within layers and layers of menus in Inkscape (and I don't know how anyone is supposed to find Live Path Effects unless someone tells them they exist). We absolutely want to avoid that. Having a preset that comes with in-built deform would make them much easier to find.

As for auto-fuse bubbles:
- Toggle option: fuse with other bubbles
- Bubbles on different layers don't auto-fuse


The right-click interface doesn't Have to be a sphere like for brushes, mind you. A rectangle one, with sub-tabs on the left (text, bubble, deform etc), menus in the middle and presets on the right would work too, for example. Well, these are design items.

I think the features should stay near the svg specification.

• SVG support text along curve or in shape (even multiple shapes). Si I think all vector shape should be usable as speech bubble (even if assistants for current bubble shape need to be present). If possible, in some kind of outliner for vectors object, it would be nice to access some kind of properties for text objects to say "go in this shape, then along this curve, then in this other shape..."
• In such a use case it may become a nightmare to code for on canvas text editing. But if there's a panel or a file dialog to edit text, it would be a nice idea to let the user see the font and size within this panel or dialog.
• I did not found metaballs in the current svg specification, but to create merged speech bubbles it would be a dream (all metaballs in the same svg group merge together, but don't interact with metaballs in other groups). Or maybe some kind of additional svg/css properties to tell the shape to not draw their outline when it cross other shapes (in a certain group) ?

I agree, Krita should try to conform with svg specifications whenever possible. However, for things like fused bubbles, it may have to twiddle around with masks and clippings or the likes. It's too obvious a feature for comic artists for Krita to dismiss implementing it just 'because it's not in the svg specifications'. Also, yes, any shape can be used as a bubble. In my mind it'd be quite like with brush tips: you have a bunch of available presets, you can make and add new ones, you can use a shape copied to the clipboard. Fron the drop-down, you can also specify the shape and relative size of the text box inside.

Regarding text-on-path and flowing text into shapes, there are basically a bunch of possible interfaces. Here are a few examples:

(I don't like all of them, they're just for brainstorming)

Let's recall that apart from these, users would probably like to have other deform options like envelope, perspective and perhaps individually warping letters. Inkscape has put-on-path and flow-into-frame under the Text menu, but envelope, perspective etc. are hidden in some other menus, so we'd want to avoid that.

Regarding whether text can or can't be edited on-canvas, the concept of not being able to edit on-canvas sounds strange to me, but in any case, I Was also thinking of a script-to-comic interface. I recall someone wanted such a feature (keep script and placement separate), and for comics that get translated a lot like Deevad's, such a feature would make translating much easier. Basically:


The idea here is that you can just write your script in a plain (rich?) text document and import that into Krita. You use some sort of symbol to indicate something as a bubble tag. Krita's script docker would then automatically parse the text, creating drag-and-drop anchors for example next to each dialogue or sfx text, which you can drag to a text box and have the text automatically display there (as 'linked content'). As a result, you just have to change the text document when you want to change your script or translate it. Now, there's the question of whether this uses 'plain' text and applies a style afterwards or allows you to feed in rich text in the first place (or gives you both options, really).

In the case of translating Asian, Arabic or some other non-European alphabet text, it'd be handy to be able to convert all presets used of a certain style to another preset, in particular in regards to font choice and text direction (vertical? right to left?). I haven't been able to think up how that'd work interface-wise, but it'd be rather cool.

I thought I knew nothing about this topic but this is what we use nearly every day at the animation studio.

Text drop-down menu to have most recent/ commonly used fonts.

For FX
1. Bloat smear and twirl any others that you can think of.
2. Fit font to shape ie. font takes the form of a star/ fish/ heart etc
I would say select the vector shape outline and then the text. Some default manipulation that other packages offer are
Bend, Arch, Wave, Bloat, Pinch.
4. Text along a path
5. Stoke stacking layers for multiple effects along a path
6. Raster Effects on anything that is vector without conversion to raster
7. Library system for text and images as well as custom settings (should be portable).
8. Text to scale with balloon simultaneously - this would be best to be a check box.

Dialogue
1. Script import feature with the ability to draw over it over the script and take notes either handwritten or typed.
2.Round table feature more than one person editing the notes at a time. (Great for script breakdowns - very difficult to do think)
Microsoft Onenote does this thing really well
The other thing that we do is save the script out as a PNG and then in on another layer write notes and draw thumbnails or small compositions. If this could be more group-oriented so people could connect to the one document and draw write at the same time this would be pretty amazing
3. Auto fill balloons. Tagging balloons so that the script can auto-populate through the comic - this feature would need to be implemented into the script as well as syncing to be effective. Knowledge of how a script is written and is a must.
4. Paragraph linking similar to InDesign this is actually super hand and useful. makes life fast and easier as well,
5. Layout view - being able to see all of the pages at the same time to get a greater sense of flow and not having to print as much.
6. Animated comic books are just really kool. So being able to animate symbols like exclamation marks or even hand-drawn symbols would be good.
7.Autocorrect spacing in paragraphs so it doesn't look like the are rivers flowing through then when a paragraph is justified.
take a look at this https://creativepro.com/type-how-to-a-river-runs-through-it/
This is usually a very time-consuming process.
8. Create your own font view or window, everyone, Making it intuitive and simple would be awesome. Using dialogs from a comic script is a perfect way to check all the classic font issues

Interesting, thanks for the list! I'm not familiar with your workflow so could you answer a few questions?
- What industry are you in exactly? Since you mentioned animation effects, are you focusing on games?
- Which programs are you using? It'd be nice to have examples of how the features are accomplished in the programs you use. You mention in-design for example, but I've never used it so I don't know what it's like.

Regarding your list:

For FX:

> 1. Bloat smear and twirl any others that you can think of.
What does text bloating and smearing look like? In particular, I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like for vectors.

> 2.Fit font to shape ie. font takes the form of a star/ fish/ heart
Do commercial programs allow you to do this automatically? Is it just envelope distort?

> 3. We
?

> 4.Bend Arch Wave and so on
Text on path and/or envelope distort?

> 5.Text along a path
ok

> 6.Stoke stacking layers for mulple effects along a path
Could you give an example of this?

> 7. Raster Effects on anything that is vector without a conversion to raster
Raster filters, basically? Are there specific styles you seek? If it's just some normal fill, it's possible to just place a raster layer on top and use the text layer as mask. If you're looking for something more specific it'd be helpful if you could give examples.

> 8. Library system for text and images as well as custom settings (should be portable).
Do you mean a library system for fonts? That's what's my presets system is for so that's that.

9. Text to scale with balloon simultaneously
> That's pretty standard.

Dialogue

> 1. Script import feature with the ability to draw over it over the script and take notes either hand written or typed.
Um.... could you provide an image of this? This sounds like note-taking over a text document, but I imagine that's not it?

> 2. Round table feature more than one person editing the notes at a time. (Great for script breakdowns - very difficult to do think)
That sounds like a text document workflow, how do you expect it to look in an image program?

> 3. Auto fill balloons. Tagging balloons so that the script can auto populate through the comic - this feature would need to be implemented into the
script as well syncing to be effective. A knowledge of how a script is written and is a must.
That's what I tried to think up in the interface in my last post. I'm not familiar with scripting myself though, so could you provide an example of a workflow? If there are programs that already allow you to use this, could you provide an interface screenshot?

> 4. Paragraph linking similar to InDesign
https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/ ... -text.html
http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/tuto ... -indesign/
This? This is pretty cool.

> 5. Layout view - being able to see all of the pages at the same time get a greater sense of ft low and not having to print as much.
Okay, this is more about Krita's general document displaying, not really about text.

> 6. Animated comic books are just really kool. So being able to animate symbols like exclamation marks or even hand drawn symbols would be good.
Krita has an animation feature now so I guess that's that?

> 7.Auto correct spacing in paragraphs so it doesn't look like the are rivers flowing through then when a paragraph is justified.
Could you give an example?

> 8. create your own font view or window everyone what's to do this but to entry level people this seems like a mammoth effort. Making it intuitive and simple would be awesome. Using dialogs from a comic script is a perfect way to check all the classic font issues.
Creating fonts in Krita? To my knowledge, that's not really Krita's goal. There are specialized programs for font creation like fontforge:
https://fontforge.github.io/en-US/

I don't think creating fonts is supposed to be easy...

> Libraries
From the list you've provided, it seems you're asking mostly for animation features. This thread is about text though.

Some people have asked for examples of comics to ascertain the workflow, so here you go:

English comics:

Girl Genius: http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.p ... 04gcp4mFQo
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20160530
Girl Genius has a default speech font, and uses bolds, italics and bigger size fonts to emphasize words. I seem to recall specific circumstances where they switched to another font (like for machines and such), but I don't recall the pages. It appears to use pre-rendered bubbles, mainly elliptical ones, but also of other shapes. Pay attention to the spiky bubbles for the last example: they're the same ones, just resized.

Order of the Stick: http://www.giantitp.com/
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1026.html
This comic uses mainly one type of font, as well as generic ellipse dialogue bubbles, though in an example provided, the author also seems to have hand-drawn thought bubbles. Lots of fused bubbles, or connections linking bubbles. A variety of fonts are used for SFX.

Gunnerkrigg Court: http://gunnerkrigg.com/
http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1061
http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1062
Gunnerkrigg court appears to use hand-drawn bubbles with black edges and colored fills. In general, it keeps to a single dialogue font, but uses a larger variety for SFX.

Drowtales: www.drowtales.com
http://www.drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=10901
http://drowtales.com/mainarchive.php?sid=11235
Drowtales changes the font color depending on the speaker, but otherwise maintains the same font. For such a style, naming presets after characters (to get the right color) would be useful. Bubbles appear to be handmade with vectors however, so bubble presets wouldn't be helpful, but vector presets (with fixed fill and line colors) might. Drowtales has some Really fancy SFX, which were likely the result of some manual work (deforms, painting etc.).

Blind Springs: http://www.blindsprings.com/
http://www.blindsprings.com/comic/blind ... e-nineteen
http://www.blindsprings.com/comic/blind ... n-fourteen
http://www.blindsprings.com/comic/blind ... -fifty-two
The bubbles here are definitely hand-drawn with brushes. The spirits speak with a different font color. I also included an example of a letter being burned, i.e. a large-scale text warp.

Grim Tales: http://www.snafu-comics.com/
http://snafu-comics.com/swmcomic/more-killin/
http://snafu-comics.com/swmcomic/border ... structive/
Compared to most other comics, Grim Tales uses somewhat more font effects: text with colored and glowing outline, text with outline and gradient fill, different fonts for different situations. Not much to say about bubbles though.

Korean comics:
I've decided to include Korean comics because there are a few sites with lots of them, so it's easy to look around. Also, they have an English translation website (www.webtoons.com) , which offers fans a feature to translate into their native language.

Strangely, I haven't found an equivalent for Japanese webcomics. I did look at examples of Japanese manga, and in those, bubbles tend to be hand-drawn, which is to be expected however since the manga themselves are hand-drawn...

1. http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.n ... eekday=tue
2. http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.n ... eekday=mon
3. http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.n ... eekday=fri
4. http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.n ... eekday=tue

Most of these use a single font for speech, either black-on-white or white-on-black. SFX use a different font and have a white outline. In general, they only use a handful of fonts. I also seem to recall that Naver actually provides a font package for its comic artists, with a handful of fonts to use.

For bubbles, most use mainly generic ellipse bubbles. Also, look closely at:
- the spiky bubbles in 1.
- the spiky 'shouting' bubbles and speedline bubbles in 3.
- the bubbles with the sketchy lines (there are two styles being repeated) and the screaming bubbles in 4.
You can tell that a preset was used over and over, with various resizing. On the other hand, the screaming bubbles in 2. don't appear to be repeated so may be hand-drawn, so perhaps some authors mix pre-rendered and hand-drawn bubbles.

The conclusion from the above is that comic users:
- Tend to use a default dialogue font while occasionally switching to others for different characters, moods and for SFX
- May use effects such as outline, may set a font color / bubble color per character
- Both hand-drawn and pre-rendered comic bubbles are used. In particular, some use more complicated styles (spiky ones or with speedlines) cleverly, by using the edge of frames, combining bubbles or using tails, to not make it obvious that they're repeating the same more-complicated bubble over and over (some don't care to hide it though, and to be honest, I never noticed until I paid attention for the sake of this UI study). Some use a combination of pre-rendered and hand-drawn bubbles.
- SFX uses the largest variety of fonts. The effects can range from none at all, to a single effect (outline, glow, shadow) to much more complex effects that were clearly hand-adjusted. In nearly all cases though, they require deform options or at least kerning.

Hey !

I'm joining the discussion lately… as an humble comic author (http://nylnook.com/en/comics/climate-frogs/). I used Krita and Inkscape to create it, in more or less the same way than David Revoy (source files here : https://github.com/nylnook/climate-frogs-comic). I'm also a long time libre graphics tool user, including Scribus, Blender, Synfig, and so on.
I like the idea of this brainstorming thread, the intent to create an easy to use interface, and many ideas sound cools, especially the "text presets" one. But IMHO there are some confusions to solve

First thing first, text is not used only for comics, and most probably, text in Krita will be used more often for titles and signatures, or making posters… so please don't forget the common use case !
Second what you call a "text preset" is usually simply called a "text style". If you are serious about it you will separate "paragraph styles", which are about spacing, and "text styles", which are about how lettering is drawn (bold for example). Scribus do that.
What is great about styles is that they are designed to separate content and form : if you change an applied style, all the text using it will be impacted.
But that's typically a layout program feature, or a word processor program feature.
As you described your "text preset" idea, it sound like you drag and drops instances of a pre-made vector+text object, in sort of the same way the Scribus Scrapbook work : http://showmedo.com/videotutorials/vide ... me=1250310
But once an object is droped, it's not linked to it's original copy anymore : you can edit it, and the original "preset" will not be affected, and vice versa.
And I suppose it's the way to go for a program like Krita in making comics : drop a copy of your speech-bubble, enter the text content, deform the bubble if needed. It's a copy, not a style, so form and content are not separated, and style can't be edited globally.

Feature like text linking and text scripting are also very "layout oriented" and also suppose to separate form and content : theses feature are made to allow the text to FLOW form one frame to another (from a speech bubble to another if you want), and most notably to flow from one page to another ! So if Krita doesn't handle multiple pages (like in hundred of pages - and it's definitely not made for that - ) to manage the layout of the full length comic book, it's meaningless to implement theses features.
Most importantly, in most of the case, in a comic book, you don't want the text to flow ! Because a bubble is also linked to the picture where it's put, to the character saying it : the text must not jump to the next bubble in any case, because it would break the meaning (another character would be speaking for example).

So IMHO, it's much more important to focus on feature like on-canvas editing (and I think it's a must have) that trying to implement text layout feature in a drawing program

I also confirm that In my use case, I draw myself speech bubble on another layer than texts… so it's important to allow to separate text and bubble. Additionally you can also draw bubbles in bitmap instead of vectors : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkDuPZK7Y_Q

And I also believe Krita will not be feature equivalent to Inkscape for vector editing tomorrow. So for SFX, use case will be more likely to create really advanced effect in Inkscape and import them to Krita, or to draw them by converting the text to pixels and using brushes, gradients, textures, and so on to create the desired effect.

Any way, it sound like "text presets" will be much more convenient and quick than typing + editing for comics.

Cheers !