Greetings,

I would like to propose that KDE support both kmail1 and kmail2. Give the user the option of which they would like to use. To many of us Linux is not a hobby and we need stable email. 4.8.0 was supposed to solve all the problems but it too seems to have its only set of problems. It would appear that several releases will be necessary to make kmail2 as stable as kmail1. KDE can say there will be no more enhancements to kmail1. So why not support both versions for a time.

ddan

If someone wants to put in the time to support kmail 1 they are free to do so. If distributions wish to continue offering kmail 1, they can do so as well.

Think about it this way: if the kmail developers don't even have enough time to fix kmail 2, what makes you think they would have enough time to fix kmail 2 and maintain kmail 1? You are only giving them more work, which would further delay getting kmail 2 fixed.

well, having not enough time to fix both, kmail 2 should be dropped yesterday.
Its is so heavily broken it looks almost unfixable (until kde 6.0 or something).
So I would suggest: stop development, redesign it from scratch (taking users whishes into the the design) and build new.
And if you do so, drop akonadi now. It makes more trouble than it is worth.

You may wish to try the enterprise3 or enterprise4 versions of KMail.
enterprise3 is the KDE 3 series of KDEPIM, and enterprise4 is the pre-Akonadi KDE 4 series of KDEPIM.

Your distribution may not offer ebuild's of these however.

SashFFM wrote:well, having not enough time to fix both, kmail 2 should be dropped yesterday.
Its is so heavily broken it looks almost unfixable (until kde 6.0 or something).
So I would suggest: stop development, redesign it from scratch (taking users whishes into the the design) and build new.
And if you do so, drop akonadi now. It makes more trouble than it is worth.

Please remember the Code of Conduct. Your comment is not constructive - it's better if you point out specific things, and in the case of bugs, file a report on http://bugs.kde.org. Alternatively, you're free to use any other email application.

Strange, as soon as someone points the sad truth, some admin writes and points to the code of conduct

But just name a few bugs that I reported and did not get fixed in several months:
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=276077 unable to send queued message
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=276078 moving/copying a message into an online imap account does not upload the message to the server
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=202071 Shift + down selection after mail deletion wrong
some of the dozen of other kmail / kde bugs I reported are fixed, but most of them are not. very sad.
and for those who think this is not enough, bugzilla reports over 200 bugs with kmail in the title.
Enough arguments?

SashFFM wrote:Strange, as soon as someone points the sad truth, some admin writes and points to the code of conduct

Why is that strange? It's part of the to ensure that the KDE Forums is a friendly and constructive place for discussion. This is not a place to post rants etc.

Try to see it from a developer's perspective - would you be more motivated if you saw comments such as "should be dropped yesterday", "so heavily broken it looks almost unfixable", "stop development and redesign it from scratch"? Probably not. Also remember that most KDE developers are volunteers who work on their project in their free time.

I don't want to argue whether KMail2 is bad or not - I personally don't use it and don't have any opinions regarding the matter - but if you want to see improvements, there are much better ways to go about it. Posting bug reports, which I see you've done, is an excellent way. If you want to contribute more I'm sure there are many tasks that you can help with regardless of your programming skills.

Actually I am a developer in a big team and on some open source projects.
And yes, it does and did made sence to do such things, abandon a new project if it heads way out of proportion and introduces so many new problem.
The management did keep hitting the dead horse way too long.
So yes, as a developer I want to have that decisioin made if it is reasonable.
But lets end this discussion here.
I am using another email client as well, for me kmail2 is not working, see the issues. kmail 1 is working but no longer supported and mixing in the libs from kde 4.6 (or something) to have kmail 1 is too much effort for me. I need a working enviroment, not one I have to fiddle around every update.

Dear hans,

Users have a right to be upset. This has cost users days of lost time and in many cases they have ported all their email to another program. Kmail2 shouldn't have been released. How are the developers going to know users are not happy with kmail2. SashFFM did offer a solution, that being restore kmail1 and continue to develop kmail2 until it is ready to release.

This isn't really possible since kmail2 has been released and some users are using it. Therefore the only solution at this point would be release kmail1 so that users have a stable email to use. This takes the pressure off getting kmail2 working. Telling users to shut up and stop complaining or go port your email to another program isn't helpful either. KDE has a responsibility to users to provide some solution.

ddan

ddan wrote:Telling users to shut up and stop complaining or go port your email to another program isn't helpful either.

And that's why I didn't tell anyone to shut up or stop complaining, I posted a reminder about the Code of Conduct which, as said, is part of the forum policies. The Code of Conduct doesn't say that users aren't allowed to complain, in only states that you should

• Be considerate
• Be respectful
• Be collaborative
• Be pragmatic
• Support others in the community
• Get support from others in the community

and I felt that the post in question violated some of these points.

Once again - users have the right to rant, but the forums is not the right place for it.

Does "being respectful" mean supporting the ideas of the developers and not critizcizing them?

Not necessarily, as long as you post constructive criticism.

SashFFM wrote:And if you do so, drop akonadi now. It makes more trouble than it is worth.

I agree with you.
When akonadi refuse to run (very common situation) is not possible to use kmail2.
Neither for reading old e-mails.

I upgraded my work machine to openSUSE 12.1 today and consequently moved to KMail2 as well.

I can't really express (well, here at the office I have expressed myself quite loudly) how disappointed I am with the new version. But I try to be constructive:

1. Migration. Migration on first run didn't work ("migration failed"). So off I went to look for answers as to how do I get the migration done. Found it, migrated manually which took a couple of hours.

2. PAINFUL slowness of everything. When I click on a message I expect it to open "immediately" and not after 5 or 10 or 30 or more seconds of waiting for KMail Folders to "synchronize folder xxx" or said account to synchronize colletion yyy or whatever. I understand IMAP server can sometimes be slow for some reason but not with every single message I open at any given time. If this is considered "normal" for KMail2 then this first will also be my last day with it.

2.1 My migrated accounts had quite a lot of messages in them. SPAM-folder was 1.3 GB and some others several hundred megabytes. I first tried removing indexing and automatic checking and whatnot from these folders but that didn't help and I didn't really want to wait for a couple of minutes after I clicked on a folder, so I trashed all accounts and re-created them, hoping this would somehow make a difference. It didn't.

3. Is there anyone on the face of this earth who has Nepomuk and Akonadi and whatnot actually working well? Having an email client depending on services which without exception fail sometime after every login is not very good.

4. Endless syncing. It seems all the program ever does is syncing but with little or no luck. Now I have deleted five times several messages from my inbox and they keep re-appearing at next mailcheck. And the program keeps syncing.

I just clicked on a five-times-deleted-already message. It took 10 seconds for KMail to actually display it. I say delete, check new mail and sure enough, there it is again. Plus checking new mail triggers yet another Syncing collection SPAM-operation even though I have set that specific folder not to be synced, not to be monitored and not to be indexed in any way. I have now waited several minutes for the Properties-window of that folder to appear.

I can not and will not reboot or re-login on my desktop every morning and I can't have an email client require that for it to work properly.

Ok, my days of constructiveness are over.

After forcefully killing akonadi this-and-that (akonadictl saying "not running" while a dozen akonadi processes were) KMail seemingly started fine this morning, loading up new mail and me being able to actually read them without waiting seconds or minutes on each.

A few "minor" glitches, though.

1. Nothing can still be deleted. KMail happily removes them from message list but they still re-appear on next refresh.
2. I would like to actually see all the old mail in my inbox as well instead of "hey, I know you have 685 messages in your inbox but I'll only show you the new ones since yesterday afternoon, ain't that cool?!"
3. This no doubt technically really cool, new and shiny akonadi-backend effectively prevents me from using alpine on this machine. I use my phone or other small device to connect to this machine and use alpine to read email. Well, no more, as akonadi processes keep the mailbox locked even after KMail has long since exited. If I want to use alpine I need to manually shutdown akonadi server first.

God, I wish I had browsed the forums before upgrading. But, it is bye-bye KMail, it was nice to know you, you were THE ONLY email client I have found that I could use productively with keyboard but I guess I can adjust to Thunderbird's way of things.

This is unbelievable. Is someone actually using KMail2? How?? Could it be that IMAP is somehow broken and I should switch to POP?