Hi,

looking for a FLOSS based possibility to add hand written notes to a PDF on Linux Mint with a graphic tablet I found Okular (1.3.3). My current way to add notes is to press F6 ("draw a free hand line") - unfortunately the option is deactivated after finishing a handwritten line so I have to press F6 3 times to write an "A".

Is there a way to keep the option activated as long as I deactivate it?

Thx for Okular!

Hi everybody.
I'm very interested in this behavior. Please, please add it to Okular.
Thanks for Okular.

It is not a KDE-Software, but you can try XournalPP/Xournal++ which behaves good working on PDF. The information can be stored separately or exported to a containing pdf file.

koffeinfriedhof wrote:It is not a KDE-Software,

So why is the url https://okular.kde.org/ ?

koffeinfriedhof wrote:but you can try XournalPP/Xournal++ which behaves good working on PDF. The information can be stored separately or exported to a containing pdf file.

https://github.com/xournalpp/xournalpp looks interesting but seems not to be part of any "regular" distro repo (Debian, Ubuntu). Unfortunately that is a showstopper for non-technical users.

r4dh4l wrote:So why is the url https://okular.kde.org/ ?

xournalpp is not kde-software

https://github.com/xournalpp/xournalpp looks interesting but seems not to be part of any "regular" distro repo (Debian, Ubuntu). Unfortunately that is a showstopper for non-technical users.

Well, there is an admin for every system. He can install and pre-configure those applications to fit in the desktop-environment. If you are the admin yourself you have to become a more-technical user or get support from a local group or similar.

koffeinfriedhof wrote:

r4dh4l wrote:So why is the url https://okular.kde.org/ ?

xournalpp is not kde-software

Sorry, you are right. My fault.

Well, there is an admin for every system. He can install and pre-configure those applications to fit in the desktop-environment. If you are the admin yourself you have to become a more-technical user or get support from a local group or similar.

I understand what you mean but this is not the way FLOSS will become the standard for the mass of the people. The majority of the people is maybe "admin" because they managed to install a GNU/Linux system but far away from being an "admin" related to the necessary knowledge. The FLOSS developing community has to understand to reach people where they are: Mostly without any basic IT knowledge (which isn't their fault after decades of missent IT education in the majority if school systems). Means: xournalpp would be an alternative if it is available via Software Manager in the main Linux distributions.

Depending on where you live it does not matter if you have the knowledge or not. In Germany e.g., admins are personally liable, independent of which operating system they use.

I often read about this rumor of becoming standard for the mass of people. But that is already done. Most servers, mobile systems, small embedded devices, etc. run linux partially open source. The desktop system is just a small area and as there could be no standards that are not free (besides industrial standards), I think that is just not a good point.
OpenSource is an industrial thing as it allows to combine the old closed world with the 'new' free one. Distributions with focus on free software are rare and do not work on new hardware as there is currently no way to get past amds or nvidias firmware politics (intel is not much better) and there are no wireless adapters running full free (since 2008 I think), and so on. So there seems to be no need for free (anymore).

tl;dr: If you do not have the knowledge, you have to learn or to pay for it as in every other part of living too.

koffeinfriedhof wrote:tl;dr: If you do not have the knowledge, you have to learn or to pay for it as in every other part of living too.

Sure, but they won't pay in money but in data - staying in the "walled gardens" of GAFAM because it is too cozy there. As long as FLOSS is not even a little bit cozy (example: installing software from sources which are not newcomer-friendly and hand writing modes like the current one in Okular) people won't use FLOSS. We won't "win" the way you suggest (and there is no win of the majority of end user systems are using proprietary software).

Installing software as an administrative task has to be done in free, open source and proprietary operating systems. As there are many ways of «installing» a software, how do you expect such a tool to behave? There are some products like Plasma Discover or other software center applications for «beginner friendly installations» but they probably do not do what you want or expect.

Personally, there is no need to «win» anything. It is just another way of living, caring, thinking,… and so on.

If you massively need handwriting possibilities (more than just taking a quick note), you should use the Apple-universe. You won't find that integration in a linux based distribution or Windows for now. I'm happy using xournalpp for those tasks, but I also have an Apple Pencil and iPad if I need to write/draw/paint/compose things which are automatically recognized as text or music. A lot of applications do integrate the Pencil functionalities.

koffeinfriedhof wrote:Installing software as an administrative task has to be done in free, open source and proprietary operating systems.

Sure. But in proprietary systems there is from average end user perspective just one method to do it: Using an integrated App Store or downloading an installation file. This is what the majority of Linux newcomers expect. There they have to be picked up. "If the Software is not in your default package manager use Snap/FlatPak/script X" is no solution. 99% of the Linux newcomers will just switch back to where they came from.

koffeinfriedhof wrote:As there are many ways of «installing» a software, how do you expect such a tool to behave? There are some products like Plasma Discover or other software center applications for «beginner friendly installations» but they probably do not do what you want or expect.

Sorry, maybe I forgot to say: The whole topic here is not about me. I'm totally fine (I know that using freedom is always more arduous than using proprietary software related to digital autonomy. This is okay für me because I value freedom and don't think just in perspective of usability. Freedom for me always comes first). I opened this topic because there is a user i try to help switch to FLOSS and this user tried to find a way to annotate PDFs with a digital pen. All solutions I offer for such people have to work for them without my help because otherwise they are just in dependency of me. That's why I need solutions that are available from default package managers.

koffeinfriedhof wrote:Personally, there is no need to «win» anything. It is just another way of living, caring, thinking,… and so on.

This won't work for me. I stay with FLOSS only. Everything else will just end up in systems full of proprietary software because they will always have the better usability (because the developing companies have much more money and user information).

koffeinfriedhof wrote:If you massively need handwriting possibilities (more than just taking a quick note), you should use the Apple-universe. You won't find that integration in a linux based distribution or Windows for now. I'm happy using xournalpp for those tasks, but I also have an Apple Pencil and iPad if I need to write/draw/paint/compose things which are automatically recognized as text or music. A lot of applications do integrate the Pencil functionalities.

I know how great proprietary software is related to usability. My first Notebook was a Tablet PC with Windows where I used Microsoft OneNote. No problems until I wanted to swtich to Linux. Then I recognized what a Vendor Lock-In is.

r4dh4l wrote:That's why I need solutions that are available from default package managers.

Every distribution has its default package managers. pacman, dpkg, dnf, … and so on. The graphical frontends like Discover or Gnome Software list the software available too, so there should be no problem installing e.g. xournalpp using it. Perhaps I did not get the problem you describe. The administrative task is to configure priorities, adding e.g. flatpak support if needed, and so on.

Your user asks you for a handwriting tool with pdf-support. There are some. Simple annotations, filling in formulas,… can be made in some viewers too. Pen support is nowadays «simple» as we have a new input system and wayland. I'm using a touch screen laptop in combination with a pen and it just works. (arch linux, basic plasma installation) and just mentioned xournalpp as it is a very handy tool for those tasks and allows to keep the original file safe.
Is it that complicated to install it? Or is the question on how to find a software?

koffeinfriedhof wrote:Every distribution has its default package managers. pacman, dpkg, dnf, … and so on. The graphical frontends like Discover or Gnome Software list the software available too, so there should be no problem installing e.g. xournalpp using it. Perhaps I did not get the problem you describe. The administrative task is to configure priorities, adding e.g. flatpak support if needed, and so on.

Just noticed yournalpp in the standard repos of Linux Mint (I'm using Debian and there it is not available). So...

koffeinfriedhof wrote:Your user asks you for a handwriting tool with pdf-support. There are some. Simple annotations, filling in formulas,… can be made in some viewers too. Pen support is nowadays «simple» as we have a new input system and wayland. I'm using a touch screen laptop in combination with a pen and it just works. (arch linux, basic plasma installation) and just mentioned xournalpp as it is a very handy tool for those tasks and allows to keep the original file safe.
Is it that complicated to install it? Or is the question on how to find a software?

...it is easy to install for the person I'm trying to help. Thank you, we will give xournalpp a try!

r4dh4l wrote:Just noticed yournalpp in the standard repos of Linux Mint (I'm using Debian and there it is not available). So...

I don't know anything about Linux Mint Repos, sorry. Must be a mistake. I only use Debian on my old Raspberry as it does not support Qt well.

...it is easy to install for the person I'm trying to help. Thank you, we will give xournalpp a try!

Have fun

koffeinfriedhof wrote:Have fun

After testing xournalpp/cournal++: It ist really great, thank you again!