Hi, Linux does not have an active stop motion program. Stopmotion ( http://developer.skolelinux.no/info/studentgrupper/2005-hig-stopmotion/ ) is awesome, but is inactive for feature developement

here is a letter that I sent to the developers of stop motion about using gphoto as an additional backend to support still cameras(including dslrs). below the letter is a developer response:


"Hi. I assume you all aren't actively working on stop motion anymore, but I
think if you were to pick it up again, integrating with gphoto would be an
awesome feature. You might look at how Digikam retrieves photos using it as
i know it can utilize it. This would allow people with still cameras,
especially newer dslrs (i have a Nikon D90), to get really high quality
results. it would really put the program in a different league. It already
supports dv cameras, but if it had support for still cameras, even dslrs, it
would replace many people's need for another stop motion program.

I know it could be done pretty easily too, but i know nothing about coding a
program. In Stopmotion, if I put "gphoto2 camera-capture" as the startup daemon, it
causes my camera to take a picture when i hit the button to connect the
program to the camera.

The connection button could be set to configure gphoto to transfer pictures
straight to the computer instead of to the ram or to memory card on the
camera. Then hitting the capture button would just capture the frame.

tell me what you think. If you think it's a good idea, perhaps i can search
the kdenlive or Digikam forums or something for someone who can help
implement this if you would not be able."

REPLY FROM A DEVELOPER


"Hi Ike,

Sorry for the late answer.

I think it sounds like a great idea! No such software existed when we (at least I) where last actively developing stopmotion. However, I don't have time to work on stopmotion these days and I believe Bjorn only has time for maintenance, not implementing new features.

If anyone else would be interested in developing it then I think that is a great idea as well.

best,
Fredrik Kjolstad"




The two main points I think need to be developed to put this program to the next level are below:

1. integration with gphoto or a good backend for capturing images from still cameras
2. enhance the settings and configuration gui to make it easy to set up your camera, project size, import/export settings, etc.
3. (very wishful) merge Stopmotion and Pencil to create one frame based, onion skinning, ultimate animator fun house.

I figure Digikam and Kdenlive developers would be the best to ask. Digikam poeple already know how to hook up to gphoto so that should be super easy. Kdenlive and Digikam poeple know about configuration and project management. Kdenlive could actually start forming a small suite for time media editing. If stop motion could be developed and either integrated into Kdenlive or as a child program, users would very much benefit from this.

my last idea is to merge the efforts of the program Pencil with Stopmotion (both Qt)

Pencil could use Stop Motion's code to create a "stop motion" layer like they have camera, vector, bitmap layers. The capture module could select which stop motion layer to send the image. They both are a solution for similar things. They both handle frame based animation/film and they both require onion skinning and other features. Merging them would allow rotoscoping and animation over film. If a chroma key effect was present I can't even imagine the full possibilities. Another thing about pencil is that the development seems to be focused a tad more on OSX development. This project would focus heavily on the linux side.

All of these technologies are currently being used in Qt/KDE applications already... It seems like coding (i know nothing by the way) would be mainly a matter of linking up already written code and writing new code to smooth it out.

So you see I'm looking to see how I could go about getting something started. I know nothing about code. And the developers are not able to work on this. But i'm willing to do what I can and when I can.


if anyone knows how i can edit this post to be more concise and effective let me know. I want this to be read and thought about, but I also want all of the ideas present.

Wow, I did not know about Pencil! That looks really good. We have discussed the idea of some animate-able shape-drawing tools to define masks and mattes, and this could be a good basis. I have past experience supporting firewire cameras and dvgrab usage within StopMotion. I think your ideas are great, but personally, I am focused on the MLT development, but I would be open to help with their MLT integration. But really this needs a coder who is very interested and eager.

My kids enjoy making stop motion and watching those great Tim Burton films. :-)

Although big studio's use DSLR's and probably many keen artists as personal projects, DSLR's have a shutter life before repair / replacement.

We started with my Nikon D70 DSLR but soon moved to a HD video camera. Eventually wanting to use the vid cam's hdmi out and a Black Magic Intensity card, cheaper than replacing a DSLR with exhausted shutter life.

Like this guy does:

http://www.carloslascano.com/carloslascano/Home.html

So we can then capture high quality frames but without using the shutter. An alternative could be live monitoring via a DSLR's USB and capture via the live view not via the shutter.

So may be live monitoring and capture via USB as well?

Actually the live view might be good fused with Granjow's new scopes for exposure control?

ddennedy:
thanks for the post. any acknowledgment of positive possibilities throughout the dev community is all i'm looking for. In a year after i'm done with an animation i'm working on (and after i graduate), I may try to learn enough to do it myself. I totally see how MLT can be of such high priority to Kdenlive. If digikam had a useful forum they would definitely know more since gphoto is one of their 2 main components. The main problem with getting a digikam devs that it would be harder as it seems they might have less interest in film/animation. Another person suggested using their mailing list, but i've never done that before, i'll give it a look this week.

yellow:
While i'm with you here (My D90 has live preview and video) I'm really wanting to focus on very workable ideas with existing libraries/backends like gphoto. And remember integrating Gphoto isn't just for DSLRs, it's for all kinds of digital still cameras, so many cameras wouldn't have the same shutter wear problems as dslrs. If you can find a project working on live preview capture for dslrs, than that would be unbelievably awesome. But otherwise i wouldn't like this to get too out of hand with totally new ideas. I'd like this to be a really reasonable project that can be done with current technologies, after that, if the program would be how I think it could easily be, it would garner enough attention to start thinking about those features. You might look in gphoto's documentation to see if there's anything they themselves have in the works in regards to live preview.

hi ikeahloe,

i saw you post on pencil's forum and thought it is a brilliant idea as well as incorporating this into kdenlive.

maybe the people @ http://create.freedesktop.org/ or libre graphics could give you a hand.

take care!

thank you sir! good suggestion i will try to shout in their direction


doesn't someone wanna do this for me ? ;)

cooomee ooooooonn. I know somewhere in the universe you are out there, unknown master coder. i know you want to create this and rule the animation world in Qt frame-based glory!


actually i'd love to learn to do this myself. any suggestions on where to start? and besides qt, what language is good to learn for media editing softwares? i'd only have a couple hours a week to study until may?

anyways my email address is ikeahloe@gmail.com if you want to contact me. Please leave a comment here if you have sugestions that fit the idea i have going, suggestions on where I should start learning program developement, or tips on people that may be interested.

One thing i can guarantee is that I would hlp make short animations for every release to help spread the word. much in the same way the openshot dude makes little videos in his program to show off new stuff or the way blender makes movies (although they wouldn't be films)

below are some animations i've done to prove I can help in this respect. i have a few stop motion but most are 3d, the pencil tests are technically stop motion and this program could be very useful for things like pencil tests.


3d animation: "QoWL"
http://vimeo.com/4513186

stop motion test with colored water:
http://vimeo.com/4045078

3d Animation (NEWEST, may offend poeple who don't like punks or sattire, made in linux, edited in Kdenlive): "Orders Vol. I"
http://vimeo.com/11517775

stop motion test with toy weapons and colored paper
http://vimeo.com/3251024

Some pencil tests using another stop motion program
http://vimeo.com/2458388
http://vimeo.com/2082819
http://vimeo.com/1987642

So you see i could help a little by making little bitty animations when major bugs are fixed or features are added or new versions are released.


The thing is i'm all linux now, which for the most part is awesome, but there are a few things that could seal the deal. I realize an After Effects replacement isn't in the near future, but I can do most of that **** in blender and kdenlive mixed. But I think it's a great opportunity to make a program that is so powerful and simple. The techonology is there, it just needs some people to help it come together. I think it's a shame not to put this out, which would just blow a lot of other solutions out of the water.

I'd like to see everyone able to use linux to make any kind of art they wish, with capable programs that they don't have to steal... AND WE'RE NEARLY THERE

anyways see ya

Is it maybe possible to break down the requirements in small feature requests?
You could then open reports on http://www.kdenlive.org/mantis.
In smaller portions it is more likely to be done ;)

For your information, I just found a small utility called qtgphotoinfo that seems rarher close to what we need for camera integration. It shows live preview and allows capture through libgphoto. Code seems clean and small, might be possible to somehow integrate that kind of thing to Kdenlive, overlaying previous frame should be easy too.

Sadly, I don't have a ptp compatible camera to test, and it seems almost impossible to know which recent camera (apart from very expensive nikons) allows that kind of remote operation...

http://code.google.com/p/qtgphotoinfo/

holy shnikeys

that is an AWESOME FIND

i'll test it out sometime soon if i can figure out how to compile it. I checked it out, but i'm not familiar with non-standard compile processes

HELL YEAH!!! kdenlive will have stop motion feature in it!!!! while already awesome, i think we can push this a bit further.

1. now we know there is someone who is specifically developing a stop motion area of the program and that it can hand frame by frame stuff

2. next we should send that developer(s) some stuff form this thread..... let the developer know about the qt gphoto.... man if it can do still cameras and dv camcorders.... we win!


oh sh*t i didn't realize you were a dev, j-b-m.

never mind, in that case, that means you peple are already looking into possiblities with different technologies.


thanks for the hard work... out of curiousity, what kind of coding knowledge do you possess.. or rather what type of code do you write, i'm interested in learning code over the next few years to help some projects that are specifically animation aimed.