Hi

I have few hours worth of 10bit uncompressed mov files arriving scanned from super 8 cine film, what is the chance of being able to edit them in kdenlive? I'm also getting them on minidv tape for quick access and rough editing and maybe creating an EDL.

Also are kdenlives effects / transitions etc done in 8bit RGB or does mlt do it and handle differently?

Is there any colour space profiles / settings?

Any advice on working with the 10bit would be welcomed.

Alternatively I can just work with the minidv files as any other movie, the 10bit uncompressed were for posterity as the cost of having them scanned to 10bit and minidv were practically the same. :-)

jmpoure

We're going round in circles, my initial post on this forum after many months of failing to build from svn was answered by Dan suggesting I use the builder script, so I did and for the first time in ages I can successfully build kdenlive however the resultant build doesn't have libquicktime enabled, so now you suggest i build from source ignoring the builder script.

The link you give me to building MLT does not anywhere show the build flag for libquicktime.

I've tried amending the builder script to include libquicktime flags, tried rebuilding but still no libquicktime functionality.

So my last resort is to now download the live CD even though I have Linux on my PC and have done for the last 7yrs.

I'm downloading the latest builder script to see if that is fixed, I have been using the check for latest version in the script but perhaps that doesn't work.

**EDIT** Now downloaded and built with the builder script on Ubuntu 8.10 and still no libquicktime.

Thanks for your continuing help.

Let us go step by step:

We need to verify that the file can be opened:

1. Download our live DVD and check if you can open your files.


2. Please upload your file somewhere for analysis, or we will not be able to help you further and we are whasting our time.

Now, we you have done that and only after:

1. Read again our compilation instructions. In the first page, it is written that you need to install libquicktime and libquicktime-dev. MLT will detect libquicktime automatically.


2. If you don't know how to compile Kdenlive and MLT, then wait for Kdenlive 0.7.1 release. I am taking care personaly of validating all RPM and DEB packages and you will never ever need to recompile Kdenlive yourself. So just sit and wait. 
   
   
   
   If you cannot wait, and still do not succeed in compiling the whole bazar, then use oud live DVD, which should be able to open your files.

If you go step by step, I will do my best to help you. The basis of Free software is access to sources. If you don't upload your files somewhere, I will not be able to help you.

Failed at step 1.

Kdenlive Live DVD from the link on this site does not open my mov files, I get the same message I recieve from my compiled svn build done with the latest builder script.

My files are 80GB raw uncompressed video, where can i upload 80GB?

I've read the build instructions yet again and built kdenlive by hand, it still fails to open the mov files. The mov files are v210 if that is any help? I suspect not. :-( libquicktime is installed, all dependancies are met.

Open Movie Editor opens the files no problem. It tells me it used the libquicktime decoder, libquicktime 1.0.2 and API version 9.

I've looked on the libquicktime site and 10 bit packed YUV 4:2:2 (v210) Encode/Decode is supported. Here's some more info as it's difficult to upload 80GB. Using the libquicktime-x11-utils 'lqtplay' utility I can play the mov files and in the terminal it tells me this:

INFO: playing Sequence_1.mov

Type: Quicktime

  0 audio tracks.

  1 video tracks.

    720x576, depth 24

    rate 25.000000 [25:1] constant

    length 85410 frames

    compressor v210.

    Native colormodel:  YUV 4:2:2 planar (16 bit)

    Interlace mode:     None (Progressive)

    supported.

  0 text tracks.

Timescale: 25

WARNING: no audio stream

INFO: Xvideo port 355: 0x32595559 (YUY2) packed [BC_YUV422]

INFO: Xvideo port 355: 0x32315659 (YV12) planar [BC_YUV420P]

INFO: Xvideo port 355: 0x59565955 (UYVY) packed

INFO: Xvideo port 355: 0x30323449 (I420) planar [BC_YUV420P]

Stream colormodel YUV 4:2:2 planar (16 bit), using 24 bpp RGB

INFO: gl: DRI=Yes

INFO: gl: frame=720x576, texture=1024x1024

INFO: using BC_RGB888 + OpenGL

INFO: window size is 720x576

  

So where does the problem lie I wonder and whether even with libquicktime compiled into kdenlive 0.7.1 will the problem disappear. As this is an MLT thing would Dan be aware of a reason?

If it's mlt that is getting libquicktime included should inigo play the mov files? It doesn't when trying to play the movs with inigo i get this error message:

mlt_repository.c, mlt_repository_init: failed to dlopen /usr/local/lib/mlt/libmltavformat.so

Failed to load "Sequence_1.mov"

It's using avformat not libquicktime is that correct? Isn't avformat ffmpeg?

When i use the local builder script version of inigo it also fails to open the movs but just says 'failed to load "Sequence_1.mov" and nothing more.

 

If the live DVD cannot open the file, there is good reason to suppose that it is not supported by Kdenlive. If you could upload a smaller file, we may verify this and maybe fix this issue. Only Dan can help on this issue.

Besides, I added quicktime-utils, quicktime-x11utils and transcode to the next DVD release.

quicktime-utils offer utilities to transcode to other formats. You may try lqt_transcode to transcode your file to a non-destructive format.

Also, if you use transcode utility (http://www.transcoding.org) you may be able to cut a small porting of the file and export it so that we can review it.

The only thing libquicktime buys you is DV MOV compatbility when you do not have the FFmpeg plugin.

If you get "failed to dlopen /usr/local/lib/mlt/libmltavformat.so" you have very little chance of getting much video to open except perhaps DV or image sequences. The infomation about libquicktime was misleading; MLT hardly uses it. So, the information about Open Movie Editor and lqtplay are not very relevant here, sorry. Those projects are targetting the high end or professional users much more than I am, and 10 bit uncompressed editing qualifies as that. However, if you can play the file with ffplay, then you should be able to open them in kdenlive (once you resolve the build problem).

To answer your question about processing in 8-bit RGB or what not, the answer is that it depends. Some effects are done in 8-bit RGB, namely anything frei0r-based. However, the majority outside that are done in 8-bit YUV 4:2:2.

Dan, thanks for the reply but there are a couple of points here missed.

• The first is regarding what i have and havent built and whether my build is right or not, we have established that even the LIVE kdenlive DVD doesn't open the files.

• The 'dlopen' problem, that was from one of the earlier builds, I also followed your previous advice and used the build script locally, the second error message I posted is using that build. I am confident that the localised build I'm using from the script allows many file types, not just dv and image sequences.

• Regarding the relevance of libquicktime? Are you saying open movie editor doesn't use libquicktime to open the 10bit movs or that even though libquicktime is included as a dependancy for kdenlive it is not utilised? Why add dependancies to a project if they are not utilised efficiently?

• Following on from the point above, a most frustrating aspect of open source is the lack of support for something whether it be hardware of file formats, but it is also very frustrating to know and see that there is a solution to a file format problem in this case 10bit mov, that the library needed for it's decoding/encoding is already bundled as a dependancy in kdenlive and yet the decoding/encoding of that format is still out of reach and as you say a PROFESSIONAL format at that. Surely it can't hurt kdenlive to support the odd professional format? When all the components are there already, what glue is needed to utilse libquicktime for MOV's.

Regarding the 8bit effects aspect, this is I think disapointing, sure video is 8bit when onlined but layering effects over each other in 8bit? won't that cause degradation and introduce artifacts in the source material?

I think kdenlive is not aimed at or have aspirations to be a professional application.

Thanks

So there is no need for libquicktime for the 10bit movs then. ffmpeg should do it?

I posted a lot earlier that NO ffmpeg based application I have installed including blender can open the 10bit movs. Blender's sequence editor is generally pretty adept at opening file formats incuding wmv's.

ffplay gives me this:

FFplay version r11872+debian_3:0.svn20080206-12ubuntu3, Copyright (c) 2003-2008 Fabrice Bellard, et al.

  configuration: --enable-gpl --enable-pp --enable-swscaler --enable-x11grab --prefix=/usr --enable-libgsm --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --disable-strip --enable-libfaad --enable-libfaadbin --enable-liba52 --enable-liba52bin --enable-libdc1394 --disable-armv5te --disable-armv6 --disable-altivec --disable-vis --enable-shared --disable-static

  libavutil version: 49.6.0

  libavcodec version: 51.50.0

  libavformat version: 52.7.0

  libavdevice version: 52.0.0

  built on Oct  3 2008 22:40:31, gcc: 4.3.2

Sequence_1.mov: could not open codecs

As an aside, if you're looking at getting a HV30, then you'll probably be aware of the hdmi uncompressed RGB out from the vid cam to most probably a Blackmagic 'Intensity' to get the full raw 1920x1080 from the sensor, the 'Intensity' puts out at the top end, a 10bit uncompressed mov format. 10bit uncompressed maybe a 'PROFFESIONAL' format but it's well within the reach of joe consumer for well under $1000.

 

• svn20080206-12ubuntu3: your version is old. It seems that your version of FFmpeg does not handle quicktime.


• You may use libquicktime utils to convert the video into something suitable for Kdenlive. Transcode may be used to to transcode your file, as it is  based on libquicktime.

The latest live DVD with Kdenlive 0.7.1 is here: http://poure.com/kdenlive/kdenlive-debianlive-gnome-20081230.x32.iso It was not advertised, as the uploading of the 64 bits live DVD is in progress. This version includes transcode and libquicktime utils.

Our opinion is that if the live DVD cannot open it, then Kdenlive does not support this format. If you provide a sample, we may enquire more deeply. Without sample, no quick answer. Play around with the DVD using transcode, FFmpeg and quicktime utils and you will have the best of what is available today.

We cannot help you more if you don't provide footage. If you would like more answers, please provide a raw example of 20 Mb, suitable for download. Sorry.

jmpoure:

Thanks for the reply, yes I slipped up and used /usr/bin/ffplay instead of the builder script svn version of ffplay, so with the very latest ffmpeg from svn I get this:

FFplay version SVN-r16363, Copyright (c) 2003-2008 Fabrice Bellard, et al.

  configuration: --prefix=/home/diffid/kdenlive --disable-network --disable-ffserver --enable-gpl --enable-shared --enable-swscale --enable-debug --enable-pthreads --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-libmp3lame --enable-x11grab --enable-libfaac --enable-libfaad

  libavutil     49.12. 0 / 49.12. 0

  libavcodec    52. 9. 0 / 52. 9. 0

  libavformat   52.23. 1 / 52.23. 1

  libavdevice   52. 1. 0 / 52. 1. 0

  libswscale     0. 6. 1 /  0. 6. 1

  built on Dec 27 2008 22:19:03, gcc: 4.3.2

Sequence_1.mov: could not open codecs

 

The same, even the very latest ffmpeg can't handle the mov files. :-(

I'm downloading the iso for 0.7.1, it takes about 2 hrs.

I'll attempt to upload some of the footage but the idea of transcoding it into a format kdenlive can handle in order to snip it and then transcode it back into exactly the same format I recieved it to get a proper sample for yourselves seems quite risky . I'll have a go.

Thanks

> I'll attempt to upload some of the footage but the idea of transcoding it into a format kdenlive can handle in

> order to snip it and then transcode it back into exactly the same format I recieved it to get a proper sample for > yourselves seems quite risky . I'll have a go.

Try transcoding using Quicktime utils or transcode. They are bundled on the DVD and should work. Good luck. If you had a small sample, you could submit it to FFmpeg mailing list, so that it gets analysed. You could also slice your sample using Quicktime utils.

I added http://www.kdenlive.org/link/libquicktime

Just for information a feature request for 10bit support was raised with ffmpeg in September. [issue656] support for r210 (10bit codecs)

So if ffmpeg is the only option for kdenlive even though libquicktime is detected and compiled into kdenlive but not really used then there doesn't seem much point pursuing any of this. ffmpeg have 10bit samples for analysis included with the feature request, Open Movie Editor can handle it so I'll use that.

Haven't used kdenlive since 0.5, it's improving very well, congratulations, I'll try it out again sometime in the future maybe.

Using the libquicktime utils to convert the file should be possible.