Uri_Herrera wrote:

notmart wrote:Now as I said too to Thomas before, the floppy is still being used because no one bothered to change it, no one bothered to change it because it's still in use and to end it with a quote, what did Einstein said about doing things over and over again?.

Some icons for a reason or the other stop being metaphors and become pure glyphs that have the meaning by itself rather than because they used to represent an object.
even if indeed the reason it was never changed is because no one bothered (same thing may be said for other icons like clipboard, answer phone and voicemail in smartphones, or even the folder icons, all of them could perhaps be changed if everybody does, but just KDE doing it is probably not enough).
I wanted to just put my point here (and sorry for not speaking earlier)

Anyways, if you guys think that this version is better (the folder with arrow), of course I'm going to trust you

What can be done is have a release with it and see if someone complains, see how it gets received.

notmart wrote:

Uri_Herrera wrote:Now as I said too to Thomas before, the floppy is still being used because no one bothered to change it, no one bothered to change it because it's still in use and to end it with a quote, what did Einstein said about doing things over and over again?.

notmart wrote:Some icons for a reason or the other stop being metaphors and become pure glyphs that have the meaning by itself rather than because they used to represent an object.
even if indeed the reason it was never changed is because no one bothered (same thing may be said for other icons like clipboard, answer phone and voicemail in smartphones, or even the folder icons, all of them could perhaps be changed if everybody does, but just KDE doing it is probably not enough).
I wanted to just put my point here (and sorry for not speaking earlier)

Anyways, if you guys think that this version is better (the folder with arrow), of course I'm going to trust you

What can be done is have a release with it and see if someone complains, see how it gets received.

Ah but there's a difference there, we still use clipboards, and land-line phone speakers still look like that, some voice recorders still use cassettes and are still in production, Floppy disks aren't in use and last I read Sony stopped producing them years ago and I think they were the only ones still producing them at that point.

You're right, KDE alone doing it it's not enough to change it, but then again, someone's got to do it.

I have already done this before with my other themes and I haven't got complaints in that regard, I'm the one that ends up not liking them anymore at some point and then I do them again.

Lets do it, see if someone complains and if they do then we can think about changing it back?

Personally I think that the folder with the arrow works great and even though there is something to be said for people being used to something - lets not let that weigh it down. I say change now and let the storm come, we'll sail that **** when it hits.

jensreuterberg wrote:Lets do it, see if someone complains and if they do then we can think about changing it back?

Personally I think that the folder with the arrow works great and even though there is something to be said for people being used to something - lets not let that weigh it down. I say change now and let the storm come, we'll sail that **** when it hits.

The thing is: If people don't recognize an icon at first and then find out what it does e.g. by hovering over it and reading the tooltip, they won't complain. It's not a big enough usability issue that people would get angry about it (they are more likely to get angry about visual design because that has more emotional value than small usability problems).
So, a floppy icon would be better from a usability perspective even though the new icon wouldn't be a big problem (since there are tooltips to tell you what a button does), and "floppy discs are not used anymore" isn't really a good argument against it as long as people associate the correct function with the icon.

However, if the visual designers agree that the advantage in aesthetics is bigger than the disadvantage in usability, then that's still a good reason for the change.

I think it's mostly about letting ourselves test, knowing full well in that IF there is a massive usability issue - then we can always swap back.

I agree that we should go with the new save icon. Bottom line is that I think this is a small enough change that we can do this with, frankly, little risk. The new icon is an effective visual metaphor for "save" from my perspective. If anyone in the world is going to ever come up with another metaphor for "save" that is not a floppy icon then, no matter what, folks will have to adjust to it because it's new. I'm not convinced that there is a credible reason that the floppy icon shall henceforth and forever more be the singular appropriate visual metaphor for "save". The new icon fits the visual style and communicates the intent well I think. I say we go with it.

Like Jens said. It is not irreversible. We have the room to try this and I really think we should.

I wouldn't say that there's little risk - this is such a thing that you could get lots of complaints about, so I would expect it if I were you.

I'm partial about which icon to ship, which you can take as "Hans isn't completely against shipping the new Save icon, even though he's usually critical about everything, which means that it's good!".

It would be cool if there was a website where people could vote on which icons that should be improved, submit their own version, view the different options and vote on which one they prefer, etc. But that would probably require a lot of work.

As a side-note about the Save icon, personally I think it's a rather non-issue since I suspect that the "Save" functionality will disappear from most applications soon in the future.

About the save icon, I would say solved, we try the new one.
On more concrete issues, I would like to have it in repos and packaged for the end of the week, so next friday we have a Neon live image running plasma next and the new icons, so will be very easy to test for people.

How does this sound?

Uri: if you want to do the push would be awesome, or I can do that if there are problems

I have to ping again..
Unfortunately we missed the beta, but the icons should be integrated asap.

Can this be done today? (Uri, if you can't, and if it's ok, I can do it later today)

Jens is currently trying to reach Uri. Do you absolutely need a decision today or would tomorrow morning still be okay?

colomar wrote:Jens is currently trying to reach Uri. Do you absolutely need a decision today or would tomorrow morning still be okay?

we missed the beta2 window anyways, so tomorrow is fine

The most complete part of the icons are the toolbar icons and the folders, it's still missing all the icons for devices and for mime-types, if you still want to add it go ahead but do remember that.

Uri_Herrera wrote:The most complete part of the icons are the toolbar icons and the folders, it's still missing all the icons for devices and for mime-types, if you still want to add it go ahead but do remember that.

I'll ask for opinions wether is a good idea making it the default in the first release given the missing ones.
I would ship it anyways tough (if it's fine for you).
Want me to do the import? do you care about revision history or just a copy is fine?

notmart wrote:

Uri_Herrera wrote:The most complete part of the icons are the toolbar icons and the folders, it's still missing all the icons for devices and for mime-types, if you still want to add it go ahead but do remember that.

I'll ask for opinions wether is a good idea making it the default in the first release given the missing ones.
I would ship it anyways tough (if it's fine for you).
Want me to do the import? do you care about revision history or just a copy is fine?

Copy is fine.

If you want to ship them that's fine, but just make the remark that it's not by any means a complete theme.

Uri_Herrera wrote:

notmart wrote:

Uri_Herrera wrote:The most complete part of the icons are the toolbar icons and the folders, it's still missing all the icons for devices and for mime-types, if you still want to add it go ahead but do remember that.

I'll ask for opinions wether is a good idea making it the default in the first release given the missing ones.
I would ship it anyways tough (if it's fine for you).
Want me to do the import? do you care about revision history or just a copy is fine?

Copy is fine.

If you want to ship them that's fine, but just make the remark that it's not by any means a complete theme.

They are now installed (as "Breeze" as well) in the breeze.git repository on KDE server (btw did you get the write access?)
One thing i changed, they are compressed as svgz now