sebas wrote:I know how this happened: I printed the picture and draw into it, so I'm working off of a static version. I'll redownload, and will print again. I'll also have to revisit the parts you describe.

Please, in case you change anything: poke me to make sure it received me (I might not follow every discussion closely), and changing information that I'm working off of under my butt can lead to such problems.

The version you used was from before Heiko emailed "I'm just uploading the changed graph according to the comments...", but yes, we'll make sure to poke you on any changes in the future (though we won't make any changes anymore unless you point problems out to us).

Just to be sure I work off of the right version: Could you attach it here again?

Thanks ...

sebas wrote:Just to be sure I work off of the right version: Could you attach it here again?

Thanks ...

Sure! This is definitely the correct version: https://cloud.user-prompt.com/public.php?service=files&t=2fb60debcc1648685a59134b3a8c0eea

mgraesslin at posting.php?mode=quote&f=285&p=314178 wrote:sebas told me to reply here He just showed me the patch to reorganize the KWin settings modules and I disagree in one point: effects under windowbehavior. Effects are not exclusively about windowbhevior - if at all the animations could count as that. But e.g. desktod grid or mouse mark effect are hardly anything with window behavior. So I would suggest to use a better suited setting module.

One reason the new categorization was to turn away from the technical point of view towards a user centered approach. And I bet that wobbling windows are rather associated with Workspace > Window Behavior than all other topics. Have a look at the actual organization here: https://cloud.user-prompt.com/public.ph ... 4b3a8c0eea Do you think there is a better place for effects at the first reorganization?
But to pick up your complaints: if we can separate those animations that relates to windows from the desktop stuff clearly, i.e. split up the current module, that would be an improvement in all aspects.

Heiko Tietze wrote:

mgraesslin at posting.php?mode=quote&f=285&p=314178 wrote:sebas told me to reply here He just showed me the patch to reorganize the KWin settings modules and I disagree in one point: effects under windowbehavior. Effects are not exclusively about windowbhevior - if at all the animations could count as that. But e.g. desktod grid or mouse mark effect are hardly anything with window behavior. So I would suggest to use a better suited setting module.

One reason the new categorization was to turn away from the technical point of view towards a user centered approach. And I bet that wobbling windows are rather associated with Workspace > Window Behavior than all other topics. Have a look at the actual organization here: https://cloud.user-prompt.com/public.ph ... 4b3a8c0eea Do you think there is a better place for effects at the first reorganization?

I'd say "Desktop Behavior" and also KWin Scripts should be moved there (one of the only script we ship is the "Desktop Change OSD" )

Heiko Tietze wrote:But to pick up your complaints: if we can separate those animations that relates to windows from the desktop stuff clearly, i.e. split up the current module, that would be an improvement in all aspects.

I don't think we have the resources to do that - more than 40 effects to organize.

mgraesslin wrote:I'd say "Desktop Behavior" and also KWin Scripts should be moved there (one of the only script we ship is the "Desktop Change OSD" )

Colomar discovered that Compositing wasn't included yet. This might a reason for the confusion since we used KF4 basically. So Desktop Effects goes to Desktop Behavior and (the new) Compositor to Window Behavior. Since "Window Behavior" sounds as if normal users can tweak their system with it but those options are rather for people with background, we should renamed it to Advanced Settings (not Advanced KWin Settings because some might be available in case of another window manager) or just "Window Manager". And this category still includes KWin Scripts.
Any complaints before I poke sebas?
PS: Graphic has been updated.

Heiko Tietze wrote:

mgraesslin wrote:I'd say "Desktop Behavior" and also KWin Scripts should be moved there (one of the only script we ship is the "Desktop Change OSD" )

Colomar discovered that Compositing wasn't included yet. This might a reason for the confusion since we used KF4 basically. So Desktop Effects goes to Desktop Behavior and (the new) Compositor to Window Behavior.

no the new Compositor goes to display - that's where sebas put it and IMHO the only place where it makes sense. Compositor has even less to do with Windows than the effects

mgraesslin wrote:

Heiko Tietze wrote:

mgraesslin wrote:I'd say "Desktop Behavior" and also KWin Scripts should be moved there (one of the only script we ship is the "Desktop Change OSD" )

Colomar discovered that Compositing wasn't included yet. This might a reason for the confusion since we used KF4 basically. So Desktop Effects goes to Desktop Behavior and (the new) Compositor to Window Behavior.

no the new Compositor goes to display - that's where sebas put it and IMHO the only place where it makes sense. Compositor has even less to do with Windows than the effects

Would it fit into a category called "Advanced Window Manager Settings", or would that still be the wrong place?

colomar wrote:Would it fit into a category called "Advanced Window Manager Settings", or would that still be the wrong place?

it's a compositor and not a window manager

Latest news: Compositor went down to Hardware > Display and Monitor (it contains rather hardware settings), Window Behavior was renamed to Window Management (to keep normal users away from these advanced settings). Desktop Effects are still under Desktop Behavior. All with Martin's blessing.

Good news: The new categorization has landed now, everything is in place.

While catching up with the latest changes, especially the new Runners KCM, I ran into a dichotomy. I've put the new "Plasma Search" (runners) KCM under Desktop Behavior (pretty clearly, it belongs there), but it means the Baloo / Filesearch KCM it under Personalization | Applications. That means that very similar / related features are in two different places. I think the setup here needs to be rethought, since the problem stems from separate KCMs per technical components, and is (at that level) not structured to the "mind map" of the user.

For now, should I move the "Desktop Search" KCM under Desktop Behavior?

sebas wrote:Good news: The new categorization has landed now, everything is in place.

While catching up with the latest changes, especially the new Runners KCM, I ran into a dichotomy. I've put the new "Plasma Search" (runners) KCM under Desktop Behavior (pretty clearly, it belongs there), but it means the Baloo / Filesearch KCM it under Personalization | Applications. That means that very similar / related features are in two different places. I think the setup here needs to be rethought, since the problem stems from separate KCMs per technical components, and is (at that level) not structured to the "mind map" of the user.

For now, should I move the "Desktop Search" KCM under Desktop Behavior?

For me "Searching" is more of a global category and does not fall under "Desktop Behavior" or "Applications". It covers both aspects.

I'm not comfortable with its current position.

vHanda wrote:For me "Searching" is more of a global category and does not fall under "Desktop Behavior" or "Applications". It covers both aspects.

I'm not comfortable with its current position.

maybe a root element "search" directly under workspace?

I've discussed this issues with Heiko a bit more, here is what came out of it:

First of all, I'd like to share our reasoning behind placing File Search in Personalization -> Applications:
That category mostly isn't about personalizing applications themselves, but about the environment for applications: Default paths, file associations, this is how applications integrate with one another. And for us, the File Search KCM fits into that category: It determines which folders applications can search in if they use
Baloo for their search. In that sense, KRunner is treated as an application, too.

That said, we've thought about how we can consider your concerns, too, of course.

notmart wrote:

vHanda wrote:For me "Searching" is more of a global category and does not fall under "Desktop Behavior" or "Applications". It covers both aspects.

I'm not comfortable with its current position.

maybe a root element "search" directly under workspace?

That "Search" 2nd-level category would be unlikely to have more than two KCMs below it. Therefore since we strive for a balanced hierarchy, we'd not be in favor of such a category.

Our idea instead would be to split up Desktop Behavior, given that with six KCMs, it's already rather crowded anyway. The idea was the following:

Desktop Behavior
* Global Workspace Options
* Desktop Effects
* Screen Edges
* Virtual Desktops

Workflow Support
* Accessibility
* File Search
* Activities
+ Launch Feedback

The reasoning here is that "Desktop Behavior" would be for things which are really closely related to the desktop metaphor. Currently, things like desktop effect configuration, screen edges and virtual desktops would simply not exist e.g. in Plasma Active.

Workflow Support are things which are not only related to the desktop as such, but affect the interaction with applications as well. File Search would fit into that, because seaching for something is usually part of a specific workflow, which is supported by our semantic desktop search.

In the future (hopefully in 5.1), the plan is to have "see also" links which can point to related KCMs in other categories. That way, a KCM can be found through different paths.

Does that make sense to you guys?

colomar wrote:
Workflow Support are things which are not only related to the desktop as such, but affect the interaction with applications as well. File Search would fit into that, because searching for something is usually part of a specific workflow, which is supported by our semantic desktop search.

Does that make sense to you guys?

It can understand what you're trying to do, I just disagree. Perhaps it's because my main work is on search.

Let's address the multiple issues that are present -

1. We could put "File Search" into "Workflow support", but with the current changes, that's not the case. It is under "Applications". Are there any plans to change this for 5.0? My impression was that the current categorization was final.

2. For me, it's not at all intuitive that when I think of changing the file related search results that I go under "Workflow support". I would spend ages looking under each category. Basically brute force. Or I would use the search option. I'm fairly certain this is not your intent. As a general exercise, maybe people could tell would be the first category that comes to your mind w.r.t configuring search?

3. Perhaps we should consider both the "Runners" and "File Search" KCM as related? They are both after all controlling what kind of search results are visible.

4. "Plasma Search" aka runners are currently under "Desktop Behaviour", which again seems very confusing to me.

5. I'm confused why "Search" being a top level category is a problem. Yes, it may only have 2 sub categories. But Isn't that the case with the "Shorcuts" category, and all the categories under "Appearance"?