vHanda wrote:

colomar wrote:
Workflow Support are things which are not only related to the desktop as such, but affect the interaction with applications as well. File Search would fit into that, because searching for something is usually part of a specific workflow, which is supported by our semantic desktop search.

Does that make sense to you guys?

It can understand what you're trying to do, I just disagree. Perhaps it's because my main work is on search

Let's address the multiple issues that are present -.

1. We could put "File Search" into "Workflow support", but with the current changes, that's not the case. It is under "Applications". Are there any plans to change this for 5.0? My impression was that the current categorization was final.

I'm not sure. It seemed to me like Sebas was unhappy with the current position of the File Search KCM and therefore wanted to discuss it, so we put an idea into that discussion. I don't know if we're discussing 5.0 or 5.1 material here. Sebas?

2. For me, it's not at all intuitive that when I think of changing the file related search results that I go under "Workflow support". I would spend ages looking under each category. Basically brute force. Or I would use the search option. I'm fairly certain this is not your intent. As a general exercise, maybe people could tell would be the first category that comes to your mind w.r.t configuring search?

This is what we did with the card sorting exercise on which the new categorization was based. The problem was that for organizational reasons (people started sharing a proof-of-concept version of the study which was not checked for completeness yet), the study missed some KCMs, unfurtanetly the then Desktop Search KCM being among them. Therefore we don't have any data on that one yet.

3. Perhaps we should consider both the "Runners" and "File Search" KCM as related? They are both after all controlling what kind of search results are visible.

They can be considered related, yes. They don't necessarily have to in my opinion, but they definitely can.

4. "Plasma Search" aka runners are currently under "Desktop Behaviour", which again seems very confusing to me.

The Runners KCM configures the behavior of a feature of Plasma, so why is that confusing?

5. I'm confused why "Search" being a top level category is a problem. Yes, it may only have 2 sub categories. But Isn't that the case with the "Shorcuts" category, and all the categories under "Appearance"?

"Shortcuts and Gestures" has four KCMs in it, but many of the 2nd-level categories in "Appearance" indeed have only two or some actually only one KCM in them. So, yes, you have a point there.
Let's hear what Heiko has to say. To make it clear:
Your suggestion is to have
"Workspace" -> "Search" with "Plasma Search" and "File Search" in them, right?

colomar wrote:

vHanda wrote:It can understand what you're trying to do, I just disagree. Perhaps it's because my main work is on search

Let's address the multiple issues that are present -.

1. We could put "File Search" into "Workflow support", but with the current changes, that's not the case. It is under "Applications". Are there any plans to change this for 5.0? My impression was that the current categorization was final.

I'm not sure. It seemed to me like Sebas was unhappy with the current position of the File Search KCM and therefore wanted to discuss it, so we put an idea into that discussion. I don't know if we're discussing 5.0 or 5.1 material here. Sebas?

I'm the one who pinged Sebas regarding the current position of the "Plasma Search" KCM and the "File Search" KCM. From my discussion with sebas on IRC, I understood that this was the final decision for 5.0 and no more changes were planned. This is, obviously, what I'm dissatisfied about.

2. For me, it's not at all intuitive that when I think of changing the file related search results that I go under "Workflow support". I would spend ages looking under each category. Basically brute force. Or I would use the search option. I'm fairly certain this is not your intent. As a general exercise, maybe people could tell would be the first category that comes to your mind w.r.t configuring search?

This is what we did with the card sorting exercise on which the new categorization was based. The problem was that for organizational reasons (people started sharing a proof-of-concept version of the study which was not checked for completeness yet), the study missed some KCMs, unfurtanetly the then Desktop Search KCM being among them. Therefore we don't have any data on that one yet.

I feared that Search may have been left out.

3. Perhaps we should consider both the "Runners" and "File Search" KCM as related? They are both after all controlling what kind of search results are visible.

They can be considered related, yes. They don't necessarily have to in my opinion, but they definitely can.

Of course. My view is, arguably, biased since I maintain both the projects.

4. "Plasma Search" aka runners are currently under "Desktop Behaviour", which again seems very confusing to me.

The Runners KCM configures the behavior of a feature of Plasma, so why is that confusing?

I'm having a hard time putting this into concrete words, so I'm going to attempt a brain dump. Please feel free to ignore it.

I seem to think of the "Desktop" more as the actual place where the wallpaper/folders are. There is after all a Folder called "Desktop". When I think of Desktop Behavior, I think about how the wallpaper would be, and how different widgets over there would act. For me, krunner and kickoff, seem separate. Perhaps "Workspace" is the correct term to club them under. I really don't know. It just seems incorrect.

5. I'm confused why "Search" being a top level category is a problem. Yes, it may only have 2 sub categories. But Isn't that the case with the "Shorcuts" category, and all the categories under "Appearance"?

"Shortcuts and Gestures" has four KCMs in it, but many of the 2nd-level categories in "Appearance" indeed have only two or some actually only one KCM in them. So, yes, you have a point there.
Let's hear what Heiko has to say. To make it clear:
Your suggestion is to have
"Workspace" -> "Search" with "Plasma Search" and "File Search" in them, right?

Yes. That is my suggestion.

colomar wrote:"Shortcuts and Gestures" has four KCMs in it, but many of the 2nd-level categories in "Appearance" indeed have only two or some actually only one KCM in them. So, yes, you have a point there. Let's hear what Heiko has to say.

I'd like to here some other opinions first. First of all sebas

Hi,

Looks good to me. KDE audio gets a lot of complaints generally. Would it be possible to put the Kmix KCM into System Settings - Hardware - Multimedia so all sound configuration is in one place?

Cheers,

P

Heiko Tietze wrote:

colomar wrote:"Shortcuts and Gestures" has four KCMs in it, but many of the 2nd-level categories in "Appearance" indeed have only two or some actually only one KCM in them. So, yes, you have a point there. Let's hear what Heiko has to say.

I'd like to here some other opinions first. First of all sebas

I've also thought about merging the KCMs for Baloo and KRunner, basically "Search Plugins" and "Filesystem Search", but that doesn't work long-term: We want to split, not merge tabbed KCMs.

So, how about a new subcategory under Workspace: Workspace has 4 subcategories, adding another one there doesn't make it unbalanced, there are others with 5 subcategories, too. So +1 for that. Sensible names welcome.

BTW, I've renamed the "Shortcuts and Gestures" to Shortcuts, since gestures in those modules are nowhere to be found. I meant to mention that to you guys for feedback, but apparently forgot. (We can always add back the "Gestures", but I think it would be confusing to name it explicitely when it's not actually there to be found.)

sebas wrote:I've also thought about merging the KCMs for Baloo and KRunner, basically "Search Plugins" and "Filesystem Search", but that doesn't work long-term: We want to split, not merge tabbed KCMs.

So, how about a new subcategory under Workspace: Workspace has 4 subcategories, adding another one there doesn't make it unbalanced, there are others with 5 subcategories, too. So +1 for that. Sensible names welcome.

BTW, I've renamed the "Shortcuts and Gestures" to Shortcuts, since gestures in those modules are nowhere to be found. I meant to mention that to you guys for feedback, but apparently forgot. (We can always add back the "Gestures", but I think it would be confusing to name it explicitely when it's not actually there to be found.)

So if we can have another iteration I agree with Vishesh's proposal. My hesitation comes from the fact that search/indexing is just a function to me and not on the same level as other sections. But it's only a weak distaste. To conclude the latest changes:

Split of Desktop Behavior plus Search/Indexing (naming is still a matter of discussion here):

Workspace

* Desktop Behavior
- Global Workspace Options
- Desktop Effects
- Screen Edges
- Virtual Desktops

* Workflow Support
- Accessibility
- Activities
- Launch Feedback (moved from Personalization > Applications)

* Indexing Options
- File Search (moved and renamed from Personalization > Applications: Desktop Search)
- KRunner (this one is new; we should consider to have clear names for all tools like Quick Start)

About gestures: My KCM (Arch Linux) provides an option to set gestures for Konqueror). Are those options removed now?

pepedopolous wrote:KDE audio gets a lot of complaints generally. Would it be possible to put the Kmix KCM into System Settings - Hardware - Multimedia so all sound configuration is in one place?

What is KMix? I assume you talk about Hardware > Multimedia > Audio and Video Settings. Its still the same categorization plus the Permission module from Administration which we renamed to CD Burn Setup. Or am I wrong?

Kmix is the volume control application which usually is hidden in the system tray. It has a lot of config options and they're not so discoverable.

http://kmix5.wordpress.com/2013/12/23/352/

You mean kcm_phonon aka "Audio and Video Settings". That's what I get for audio setup. This modules is under Hardware > Multimedia, as said. Or do you talk about a new module which consists of simple parts of the mixer? Even my Neon installation does only have the kcm_phonon module. Anyway, in this case it makes perfect sense to have it with the other multimedia stuff at one place nearby hardware.
PS: Good to see improvements on this front too. There is a lot of work to do

Here are three screenshots from system settings with the new (current) categorization, by the way:

http://imgur.com/5WeDYrj,OpUmfvQ,NKPjTcF#1


... and a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L95LV7eBGJw

sebas wrote:Here are three screenshots from system settings with the new (current) categorization, by the way:

http://imgur.com/5WeDYrj,OpUmfvQ,NKPjTcF#1


... and a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L95LV7eBGJw

Thank you for the detailed documentation, seeing our organization in the actual interface feels really great!

One thing I noticed was that a whole lot of KCMs from our organization (which was based on Plasma 4) are missing.
It would be important to know which of them are planned to yet be ported and which ones will just be killed (like the Social Desktop KCM), because if many KCMs from Plasma 4 times will be gone forever, some of the categories (especially on the second level) might not make much sense anymore.
The only first-level category which doesn't make much sense with the KCM collection you showed is Network because if I saw it correctly it's home to only a single KCM, but I assume there will be many more KCMs in that category in the future, right?

Oh and everyone who watches the video, please be aware that the Breeze-style UI is just a proof-of-concept. The design isn't finalized yet and the prototype implements only parts of the design.
It was meant to show that the approach is generally possible, it accomplished that, so that's all there is to it. The final look and feel will be similar to this, but definitely not exactly like it.

sebas wrote:Here are three screenshots from system settings with the new (current) categorization...

Awesome!

colomar wrote:...Oh and everyone who watches the video, please be aware that the Breeze-style UI is just a proof-of-concept. The design isn't finalized yet and the prototype implements only parts of the design. It was meant to show that the approach is generally possible, it accomplished that, so that's all there is to it. The final look and feel will be similar to this, but definitely not exactly like it.

The recent Breeze-style layout idea looks rather like this: viewtopic.php?f=285&t=119951&start=330#p313528

Heiko Tietze wrote:The recent Breeze-style layout idea looks rather like this: viewtopic.php?f=285&t=119951&start=330#p313528

That was merely a suggestion for an alternative, wasn't it? I haven't seen a decision in that thread yet.
Whatever we decide in the end, it shouldn't be a problem to adapt the prototype. It's QML, so changes are rather easy. I think the prototype should stay as it is until we've finalized our mockup, discussed it with Sebas and really move on to the implementation phase.

Well, yes. What's shown is one prototype, experimented with. I didn't even understand the interaction of the design right. A few iterations can surely fix that. My main goal was to proof-of-concept the mixing of QWidgets and QtQuick UIs (and we're running into some problems there). Overall, this experiment highlights very well the challenges, yet gives something to actually touch and improve.

As you said, it's easy to change. Most of the work in the backend will be useful anyway.

Heiko Tietze wrote:* Indexing Options
- File Search (moved and renamed from Personalization > Applications: Desktop Search)
- KRunner (this one is new; we should consider to have clear names for all tools like Quick Start)

Sounds good to me. I generally hide away from using the term "Indexing" since I think it is too technical and just an implementation detail. For runners, a lot of them do not have indexes. But you guys can choose.

Currently, I have patched it to be as follows (not yet pushed)
* Search
- Plasma Search
- File Search

I can rename it however you feel appropriate. Please let me know.

Indexing sounds too technical and too narrow for me, too.
You can keep "Search" while Heiko and me try to settle on one term