And here comes the second step: Since we cannot change any KCM we will have a 1:1 association. That means every KCM of the current system should be as it in the new one (maybe we can change the name). I prepared some kind of a mindmap. It contains the current system on the left (as distributed by Arch Linux) and the new categories on the right.



Please feel free to update my graph. I tried KDE's 'Semantik' which is a very handy mindmapper but does not offer the option to cross-link. So the diagram was made with 'yed' (http://www.yworks.com/de/products_yed_about.html) (unfortunately Java). Data can be downloaded from https://cloud.user-prompt.com/public.ph ... de7ae8f0f6

PS: Project should have a nice name, therefore Kasymir. Of course it's just an idea.
Kasimir is a Polish male name derived from peace ('mir').

Sebas hasn't replied yet to a question about what flexibility we have for the second level of the hierarchy. That means to me that apparently he isn't working on system settings right now, so we have time until he replies.

About the first level, the two questions still open are
- Do we want a "Software" category?
- Do we want a "System-wide" category?

I'd personally go for not having a Software category but for having a System-wide category.

Any objections to that?

colomar wrote:Sebas hasn't replied yet to a question about what flexibility we have for the second level of the hierarchy. That means to me that apparently he isn't working on system settings right now, so we have time until he replies.

About the first level, the two questions still open are
- Do we want a "Software" category?
- Do we want a "System-wide" category?

I'd personally go for not having a Software category but for having a System-wide category.

Any objections to that?

For those who haven't been following closely lately (read, me), could you quickly summarize what a "Systen-wide" category does?

Sogatori wrote:For those who haven't been following closely lately (read, me), could you quickly summarize what a "Systen-wide" category does?

Have a look at the graphic: it is equivalent to the current System Administration (so far equal).

(deleted by me)

Heiko Tietze wrote:Have a look at the graphic: it is equivalent to the current System Administration (so far equal).

Um, not exactly. After I found out that "Startup & Shutdown" as well as "Task Scheduler" are purely user-specific settings, those would not fit in there. Font Management would be debatable since it contains both user-specific and system-wide settings.

It would contain
- Date & Time
- Login Screen
- Permissions
- perhaps Font Management
- Any other KCM which would need root permissions to make any changes.

And here is the final new organization. Thomas (aka colomar) and I talked a lot about the structure, names, and especially the admin modules. We think it's the best to integrate the few modules because users look for Font Management not at 'system-wide' but where Font is. The technical discrimination should not be the reason for a categorization.
The implementation will be started soon by sebas. So if you have complaints or suggestions please take your chance now.



You can change the original graph with yed (see posting above). The raw data can be downloaded here:
https://cloud.user-prompt.com/public.php?service=files&t=e82ac29e10cc6fc80f390b6009673320

Wow. Stunning work!

How about calling it Keasymir

Some ideas:

- Consider consistent use of singular vs. plural (e.g. Themes / Icons vs. Colour / Style / Font)
- I have some problems with the differentiation of the content of Personalization/Account Details vs. Network/Connectivity. Perhaps it would be a good idea to get rid of the Network section altogether and move the content to Personalization and Hardware.
- Consider to add Network Manager Details - Jan is planning a KCM for that.

Again, great work!

That's really awesome Heiko!

I'm glad it worked out that we didn't need another top level category and those mostly look fine to me. This was a ton of work but it will SOO be worth it.

The only comment I have is on the Theme and Style groups - they still feel slightly awkward to me. I know we've been struggling with this a bit. It's a little tricky to figure out why some of the modules are in one group and not the other. If it's not too late for an idea to address this, might the following tweak for those groups help?
Application Style
a. Window Decoration
b. Widget Style
c. GTK Style

Workspace Theme
a. Desktop Theme
b. Cursor Theme
c. Splash Screen

With the resulting Appearance groups being, in order: Color, Font, Icons, Application Style, Workspace Theme

Anyway, I'm sure you're tired of talking about this so no heartburn from my end if it goes in as is. I just wanted to throw out this idea in case it might help with this last issue. Either way, this is awesome!

Heiko Tietze wrote:And here is the final new organization. Thomas (aka colomar) and I talked a lot about the structure, names, and especially the admin modules. We think it's the best to integrate the few modules because users look for Font Management not at 'system-wide' but where Font is. The technical discrimination should not be the reason for a categorization.
The implementation will be started soon by sebas. So if you have complaints or suggestions please take your chance now...

That looks great. Though, I have some questions about setting widget styles.

Is this GTK kcm under Appearance the one same GTK kcm where one could change widget themes, fonts, and icons for GTK2 and GTK3? Can it be changed so changing the fonts and icons in System Settings change the fonts and icons for Qt4, Qt5, GTK2, and GTK3 all at the same time? This could be done by writing out the respective config file for each GTK toolkit whether these toolkits are found or not. Then, a GTK kcm would only be used for GTK2 and GTK3 widget theme.

Also, where does one change Qt4 and Qt5 widget styles in your mockup?

Hello everyone!
First off: very, very cool work done here!

But i want to give some (hopefully) helpful input:
There are at least a few kcm's which have abbreviations in their names. I would argue that "PIM" is a rather uncommon abbreviation for someone who is not familiar with the topic. So a new user would probably have no clue what he is about to face when clicking on "PIM Details".

So my suggestion would be to rename the following kcm's:

GTK -> Gnome Application Style (this one is a bit tricky)
KDE Wallet -> Wallet or Digital Wallet (is there really a need to specify it's the kde wallet if it is in the kde system settings?)
SSL Preferences -> Security Preferences
PIM Details -> Accounts and Resources
IM & VoIP Accounts -> Communication Accounts
General IM & VoIP Settings -> General Communication Settings
CDDB Retrieval -> Audio Information Retrieval

I hope this was helpful. Keep on doing this awesome work
Cheers.

alake wrote:That's really awesome Heiko!

I'm glad it worked out that we didn't need another top level category and those mostly look fine to me. This was a ton of work but it will SOO be worth it.

Yes, it was quite some work. We're getting used to spending a whole evening in a Hangout every now and then

CTown wrote:Is this GTK kcm under Appearance the one same GTK kcm where one could change widget themes, fonts, and icons for GTK2 and GTK3? Can it be changed so changing the fonts and icons in System Settings change the fonts and icons for Qt4, Qt5, GTK2, and GTK3 all at the same time? This could be done by writing out the respective config file for each GTK toolkit whether these toolkits are found or not. Then, a GTK kcm would only be used for GTK2 and GTK3 widget theme.

This thread is only about the first step, changing the organization for Plasma 5.0. For that release, no KCMs can be changed. Feel free to bring your idea up again when KCMs are being discussed.

CTown wrote:Also, where does one change Qt4 and Qt5 widget styles in your mockup?

It's done via "Widget Style" (there is a typo in the chart, it says "Widet Style").

I will update the graph tomorrow according the comments of both of you. But why should we start with Color, Font etc. and place the module that comes first in mind when talking about theming at last?

Network section: We should rather add stuff there . Seriously, Account Detail like user name, email and postal address etc. are different from connectivity. I don't see an association here.

Network Manager: We sorted only the existing KF4 modules. Some might be haven removed right now, like System Bell, others will be added in 5.1 or so. I hope that the implementation have enough flexibility for changes.

GTK kcm: In the first step we don't get andy's mockups. Only the current modules but with new organization (maybe a refurbished navigation too). And Gtk3 is part of the Gtk module unless someone rewrites it from scratch.

Saabhero wrote:So my suggestion would be to rename the following kcm's:...

+1 for GTK -> Gnome, KDE Wallet -> Digital Wallet, SSL -> Security,
But 'Communication' could be something else like Spotify.
And CDDB renaming is okay too but we should add this term in parenthesis for the experienced users.

Sorry, Heiko and colomar. I guess I jumped the gun. I forgot this is about organization and not functionality.