Sogatori wrote:I just wondered something. When every tab has a close button, what happens when I click the close button of the window decoration? Will it close all the windows that are represented as tabs, or just the focused one?
If it closes only the currently focused one then it might be a good idea to either remove the close button in the focused tab or visually indicate that the window controls are part of the currently focused tab and not of all tabs.

with Oxygen it closed the focused tab. It could also be the complete group, but then we need to add a warning or something like that.

mgraesslin wrote:

Sogatori wrote:I just wondered something. When every tab has a close button, what happens when I click the close button of the window decoration? Will it close all the windows that are represented as tabs, or just the focused one?
If it closes only the currently focused one then it might be a good idea to either remove the close button in the focused tab or visually indicate that the window controls are part of the currently focused tab and not of all tabs.

with Oxygen it closed the focused tab. It could also be the complete group, but then we need to add a warning or something like that.

To keep things consistent with tabs within applications, clicking the close button should close the whole group. And yes, there should be a warning, just like e.g. browsers do if one closes a window with multiple tabs (and the browser is not set to save the tabs), or like Konsole does.

In summary: A tabbed window group looks similar to tabbed MDI, so users will expect it to behave like one, and it should.

What kind of application has a global "close all tabs" button?
You close the window, what is totally unrelated and common among all applications. If the window randomly contains tabs, all tabs are closed with the window.
That is not the same as closing all (pot. completely unrelated) windows that you just stuffed together in the WM.

You'd have to warn every time (and rather *not* allow for "don't ask again") and that's probably more annoying than clicking the close button (on the same spot) 4-10 times in a row.

luebking wrote:What kind of application has a global "close all tabs" button?
You close the window, what is totally unrelated and common among all applications. If the window randomly contains tabs, all tabs are closed with the window.
That is not the same as closing all (pot. completely unrelated) windows that you just stuffed together in the WM.

You'd have to warn every time (and rather *not* allow for "don't ask again") and that's probably more annoying than clicking the close button (on the same spot) 4-10 times in a row.

"Stuffed together by the WM" is the technical perspective. A grouped window looks and behaves pretty much identical to e.g. a Chrome or Firefox window in a WM that allows CSD: You got one window which you can resize, minimize, maximize and close. Within that window, you have tabs showing different context. If you close a Chrome window, all tabs withing are closed. Why would closing a window that has tabs in it which represent different applications (or instances of the same application) behave different?

Okay, actually, this is not something that should be solved by discussion. It's something that can easily be tested with users. We can just each get five people who are not regular users of that feature in KWin 4 (because those would of course expect it to behave like they're used to from KWin 4), explain them what a grouped window is and then ask them what they would expect when they click the close button (not what they want or what they think others will want, just what they expect to happen when they click the button).
If the majority expects it either to close only the current tab or all tabs, it's settled. If there is no clear majority, we should discuss.

I'm certainly inclined to agree to colomar here. But like he said, it's easily resolved with a user test.

My "concern" here is that "usually" you've either a browser with tabs. Or a filemanager with tabs. Or konsole with shell tabs...
WM tabs allow you to group kwrite with konsole, firefox and dolphin.

-> You close "the firefox window" and gone is your long time shell task in konsole.

Get your hands dirty: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/07/kdecoration2-the-road-ahead/

Current state of code is pushed and a new project on todo.kde.org is created with lots of tasks. Help not only welcome, but needed.

luebking wrote:My "concern" here is that "usually" you've either a browser with tabs. Or a filemanager with tabs. Or konsole with shell tabs...
WM tabs allow you to group kwrite with konsole, firefox and dolphin.

-> You close "the firefox window" and gone is your long time shell task in konsole.

That's why we need a warning. Like there is also a warning when closing a browser or Konsole with multiple tabs open.

mgraesslin wrote:Get your hands dirty: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/07/kdecoration2-the-road-ahead/

Current state of code is pushed and a new project on todo.kde.org is created with lots of tasks. Help not only welcome, but needed.

Okay, I had a look at the board and I fear that nobody in this thread will dare to even come near any of those tasks. They all look highly technical and way too abstract to even know what to do here.
Remember: This is the forum of the visual design group. Many people here don't have any C++ experience. Most solely do visual mockups, others are currently getting to grips with QML. They will need a whole lot of guidance if they are to help you here. Just a simple "get your hands dirty" and a board full of one-line task descriptions won't get them going, I'm afraid.

So, what I think would help is defining which tasks need C++ skils, which can be done in QML and for which maybe just providing you (or someone else) with precise measures for things would already be helpful.

colomar wrote:

mgraesslin wrote:Get your hands dirty: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/07/kdecoration2-the-road-ahead/

Current state of code is pushed and a new project on todo.kde.org is created with lots of tasks. Help not only welcome, but needed.

Okay, I had a look at the board and I fear that nobody in this thread will dare to even come near any of those tasks. They all look highly technical and way too abstract to even know what to do here.
Remember: This is the forum of the visual design group. Many people here don't have any C++ experience. Most solely do visual mockups, others are currently getting to grips with QML. They will need a whole lot of guidance if they are to help you here. Just a simple "get your hands dirty" and a board full of one-line task descriptions won't get them going, I'm afraid.

So, what I think would help is defining which tasks need C++ skils, which can be done in QML and for which maybe just providing you (or someone else) with precise measures for things would already be helpful.

I hope you actually clicked the items because most are not just a one line description

Yes I am aware that this forum does not hold C++ developers, but I have seen this thread also been posted to e.g. reddit and there is a chance that people read it. The tasks are fairly simple and can be done with not much C++ experience. I need help with it, I don't have the time to do it on my own. It's that simple, I'm supposed to work on Wayland.

I wanted to ask if @mgraesslin for the new kdecoration it is possible to easily change themes, so that users can then indulge in creating new themes and customize, I think it would be important, and Oxygen has never done ...

lazyit wrote:I wanted to ask if @mgraesslin for the new kdecoration it is possible to easily change themes, so that users can then indulge in creating new themes and customize, I think it would be important, and Oxygen has never done ...

I do not really get your question. Of course it will be possible to change the decoration. What I don't get is what Oxygen has to do with it...

mgraesslin wrote:

lazyit wrote:I wanted to ask if @mgraesslin for the new kdecoration it is possible to easily change themes, so that users can then indulge in creating new themes and customize, I think it would be important, and Oxygen has never done ...

I do not really get your question. Of course it will be possible to change the decoration. What I don't get is what Oxygen has to do with it...

I think he's asking how easy/difficult this API will the creation of new decorations. Similar to how most people had to use the (relatively) limited qtcurve engine to create new themes, because it was the only way to make themes easily. There was no other way to create global themes without C++.
Gtk+ based desktops have this great amount of diverse themes available because it has a easily accessible powerful theming engine. CSS is more widely know than c++ after all. So he's asking how these themes are being created.

I could be wrong though, maybe he meant something else.

mgraesslin wrote:I hope you actually clicked the items because most are not just a one line description

It's not only the title, but the descriptions for most of the cards I clicked so far were also one-liners.
That may work great for people already familiar with KWin, but I don't know how some complete newcomer could know what to do if he or she reads e.g. "The DecorationShadow should be inspired by KWin's Shadow used in the OpenGL compositor using offsets and a packed QImage as content.", let alone what skills are needed for that task.

Yes I am aware that this forum does not hold C++ developers, but I have seen this thread also been posted to e.g. reddit and there is a chance that people read it. The tasks are fairly simple and can be done with not much C++ experience. I need help with it, I don't have the time to do it on my own. It's that simple, I'm supposed to work on Wayland.

But even those probably need much more guidance if they've never seen a single line form KWin yet. Or at least they have to be told that they can feel free to bombard you with questions if they're interested in one of the tasks.
If your experience is that people who read about these kinds of tasks on Reddit are still brave enough to volunteer, then you can call me ignorant and I'll shut up

colomar wrote:But even those probably need much more guidance if they've never seen a single line form KWin yet. Or at least they have to be told that they can feel free to bombard you with questions if they're interested in one of the tasks.

That one can bombard me with questions should be obvious. Also the tool allows to add comments so that I could answer there. And of course I can still extend those tasks. Right now it's just a documentation of the things which need work.