Okay, so the VDG's task is to come up with a design that works well for promotional websites for KDE applications in general, and Okular would be the reference implementation. Correct?

Yes, colomar, I think we have an understanding here

Checking some of the app websites, I don't see a lot of consistency... Is there no CMS running the *.kde.org applications websites? No standard layouts or templates? Can anybody familiar with the KDE applications pages chime in and give some details about how these are run? I'm a little bit shocked right now. If it's as much of a mess as I'm thinking, I think some heavy lifting might be overdue.

I think different discussions are mixed up here.

Wiki is not always the perfect solution if you want to have "official" information (the wikipedia model is not the one-solution-fit-for-all).
So a custom website can be useful as well.
The technology can be different, but it does not mean that it can't share the same layout or similar layout than other projects. Now, I'm not sure so please correct me, but don't we have some theme which is already used in the different CMS around? (because we use different CMS, in addition to static sites, around *.kde.org)?

I'm all for common elements to identify our sites, but a bit of personalization based on the specific application could be useful too. Okular and Kig (just to mention two random applications) are different beasts.

Please leave aside the "translations easier on wiki" argument, the current okular site (like other websites) is translatable and translated. Also, about fixing typos: it's not like there are going to be tons of them, are there many on the current site? It's not really an argument IMHO.
It's not like everyone is going to add the release information on the Okular website.

That said, the final decision is not mine, I'm just a translator and Okular contributor.

The problem with doing a hand rolled website is that in a couple of years time, when the maintainer has changed and those that are currently doing the websites are either not around any more or can't be bothered, it's going to be a major pain to update it and change it. Using a CMS removes those issues as updating the look, content, and functionality is a painless process that can be done in an afternoon. Frankly, using wordpress I would have already done Okulars website by now, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I have suggested going down the wordpress multisite route for kde.org, which would essentially create a mini wordpress.com for kde. Entire 'blogs' can be created with a few clicks of a button, so when kde software expands and other people want to have websites for their stuff they can be easily created. You've only got to look at the plugins and themes section on wordpress.org to see that selecting an appropriate look and and funtionality for a project would just be a case of browsing through the themes section, selecting one you like, and then maybe modifying a few things.

There are so many things that could be done. A lot of the popular plugins are commercially supported open source, we could have proper event management and calenders, etc etc.

The current road we are travelling on is incredibly short sighted I think, and now there is momentum to change it I think we should go all out and put a solid foundation beneath our feet.

davidwright wrote:The problem with doing a hand rolled website is that in a couple of years time, when the maintainer has changed and those that are currently doing the websites are either not around any more or can't be bothered, it's going to be a major pain to update it and change it. Using a CMS removes those issues as updating the look, content, and functionality is a painless process that can be done in an afternoon. Frankly, using wordpress I would have already done Okulars website by now, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The decision about the big global wordpress site depends on various unknown points, it's not this the place where it belongs.
(for people who don't know, see the thread starting here http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-www/2014-August/005719.html)
This is the place to discuss about a new layout and structure for Okular website. I think from the IRC discussion that this is the main goal (proper information to casual users). The new design can be useful even in case of a technology switch, it can be useful now to have something ready and as test prototype, and as you said, it shouldn't be difficult to adapt it in case of a big switch to the centralized CMS. If emilsedgh wants to invest the time is this (which again is primarly about the okular-specific structure), well, let's see.

I tried to answer Kver and David Wright several times in details.
But I'd rather keep this discussion really straightforward:

We do not have a single solution, we probably do not even want a single solution.
Even if we did (the decision is not even mine to make), that is a very very huge task and it does not belong here, as tosky said.

This thread is about making Okular.kde.org pretty and having in mind that other KDE applications might enjoy something like that as well. Nothing more.

Okay so everyone, please refrain from discussing underlying technology from now on. I'm sorry that I did that as well, I won't do it anymore.
If anyone would like to discuss CMS, please do so on kde-www@kde.org.

So, is anyone interested in providing a new design for KDE application sites?

Ok. Sorry guys. My passion got the best of me. I'll go and crawl back into my box on that topic, and reboot it on the mailing list at some point.

Back to design and ideas. Considering okular is a document reader, I'm thinking that maybe we should have the page laid out like a series of A4 pieces of paper? There is not a lot of information on the current website, so we could probably squeeze it into 2 - 3 A4 size 'pages', so there wont be much to scroll down. I'd also argue that scrolling down is probably quicker than clicking on multiple links anyway.

Thoughts anybody?

davidwright wrote:Ok. Sorry guys. My passion got the best of me. I'll go and crawl back into my box on that topic, and reboot it on the mailing list at some point.

Don't worry, happens to the best of us

Back to design and ideas. Considering okular is a document reader, I'm thinking that maybe we should have the page laid out like a series of A4 pieces of paper? There is not a lot of information on the current website, so we could probably squeeze it into 2 - 3 A4 size 'pages', so there wont be much to scroll down. I'd also argue that scrolling down is probably quicker than clicking on multiple links anyway.

Thoughts anybody?

Single-page websites are the current design trend in many areas, which makes sense especially for browsing them on touch devices, but they usually work well when browsed with mouse and keyboard, too. So yes, that could make sense.
We have to keep in mind that we want a design that is applicable to other KDE applications as well, though. Maybe we can find a way to combine consistent elements with application-specific elements, so that people recognize both the KDE brand and the application's individual brand in the website?

colomar wrote:
Single-page websites are the current design trend in many areas, which makes sense especially for browsing them on touch devices, but they usually work well when browsed with mouse and keyboard, too. So yes, that could make sense.
If we want the design to be applicable to other KDE applications too, though, we should not reference Okular in the design, though.

The problem is I am not in agreement with that idea. I think every project should have it's own identity and brand. I think it fits in with the new way of KDE releasing things separately, and everything standing on it's on merit. I certainly thing there should be a common KDE Community element in each of the websites, as these are KDE hosted projects after all, maybe a common footer or header with all the appropriate links? But certainly not the design itself.

Every project is different, and will have different requirements for its website. I'm not sure we can cater for that in a single design, and I'm not sure we'd want to either. This is a fundamental problem we have, which is why I am arguing for a common underlying technology, rather than a common design.

So we here have 2 choices:
1) Okular's page doesn't get too okular-ly because we'd like to reuse it on other pages
2) Okular's page gets very very customized, at the price of less share-ability and look-alike with others.

I personally agree with David here. With Frameworks, KDE is really trying to push forward applications as standalone projects that are great on their own.
For example, I think Krita is a neat example. On Krita.org's homepage, there is not a single mention of KDE.
Krita is a FREE digital painting and illustration application.

Krita offers CMYK support, HDR painting, perspective grids, dockers, filters, painting assistants, and many other features you would expect. Check out the gallery to see what other artists have done with Krita

Compare that to Okular:
Okular is a universal document viewer based on KPDF for KDE 4. This means Okular works on multiple platforms, including but not limited to Linux, Windows, Mac OS X, *BSD, etc.

The last stable release is Okular 0.19, shipped as part of the KDE 4.13 Applications release.

Okular combines the excellent functionalities of KPDF with the versatility of supporting different kind of documents, like PDF, Postscript, DjVu, CHM, XPS, ePub and others.

Okular emphasises on KDE and KPDF (last released 6 years ago).

So, we need a balance here IMHO. Sharing colors between different pages, gives them a good identity. But they dont necessarily have to share the same exact layout. Otherwise, we will get to something like https://www.kde.org/applications/system/dolphin/

That's what I meant by "Maybe we can find a way to combine consistent elements with application-specific elements"

emilsedgh wrote:
So, we need a balance here IMHO. Sharing colors between different pages, gives them a good identity. But they dont necessarily have to share the same exact layout. Otherwise, we will get to something like https://www.kde.org/applications/system/dolphin/

Do you mean sharing colours between different project websites? Because even that I'm not so sure about, as certain projects might warrant a different colour theme.

There will need to be consistent elements though as colomar rightly states, such as links to git repo, wiki, irc etc. Maybe we should settle those first?

That is what I meant, David. But it was just an idea, not something I would insist on.