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Feedback on edit-cut icon

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veqz
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:03 pm
Like so:
Image

Edit: No, that didn't make it any better... :-\
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:05 pm
luebking wrote:LOL =)
I started this before "colomar, Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:18 am"


1st off:
The icon (or a special variant) has to work at 16x16px - that's not subject to discussion.

Now, back on topic: The nmfnms theme played on the idea of operating on stacks:

Image
Image
Image

NOTICE:
these icons have the defect of being all too similar to each other, i'm just posting to prove that I do absolutely NOT mind to question last-century-office mataphors.

That said, the present cut icon frankly looks like an index chart to me - at any size.

Systematically we have:
copy: a document and it's clone (the action's result)
paste: a clipboard, (the action data source - so much for the office thing ;-)
and cut: a ripped apart document (which seems to refer to the action's result again?!)

Thing is: "cut" does not lead to a ripped apart document, but a modified (shortened) document and data on the clipboard.
I'm not sure whether we can bring a doc and a clipboard into one icon, but maybe a shortened document and a slice floating over it or being set out to the right?

Sth. into this direction:
Image


Strictly speaking: then copy does not reflect reality: it shows copying entire document.

I see scissors on modern OSes, BTW, even these with not yet released hardware :)

As for the save icon, the concept of arrow + some storage is 7+ years old, see http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/GNOME ... t-save.svg

The metaphor kind of merged with 'download', which uses the arrow too. BB10 uses exactly the same concept of arrow+folder for 'download' and tickmark+folder for 'save'. The newest android stays with a floppy disk for save.

So again, I see a lot more activity in the area of 'save' outside of KDE, and really no visible (non-niche) activity in a case of edit-cut. I love what you do but it would be cooler if we're not fixing something unless it's broken and doable without a risk. We're also not creating new document formats but using what users have one their desktops unless there's no acceptable choice.

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colomar
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:07 pm
veqz wrote:Like so:
Image

Edit: No, that didn't make it any better... :-\


I think it did! Due to the Gestalt law of closure (I love Gestalt laws!), the mind recognizes the document as a whole and ignores the missing part.
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Uri_Herrera
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:11 pm
veqz wrote:Like so:
Image

Edit: No, that didn't make it any better... :-\


Yes that's good, can you mail it,upload it, push it, copy and paste the xml code :)
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veqz
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:15 pm
jstaniek wrote:Strictly speaking: then copy does not reflect reality: it shows copying entire document.

Actually, it does. Cut is taking one piece out of the whole, and Copy is to copy one thing into a new, equal thing. :)

colomar wrote:
veqz wrote:Like so:
Image

Edit: No, that didn't make it any better... :-\


I think it did! Due to the Gestalt law of closure (I love Gestalt laws!), the mind recognizes the document as a whole and ignores the missing part.

Hmm. Maybe my mind doesn't Gestalt correctly? :P

But if everyone else think it fixes it, then I'll be perfectly happy with it. :)

Uri_Herrera wrote:
veqz wrote:Like so:
Image

Edit: No, that didn't make it any better... :-\


Yes that's good, can you mail it,upload it, push it, copy and paste the xml code :)

Erm... that's just a bitmap I edited in KolourPaint. :<

I've never worked with svg's, and frankly I have no idea where I would email, upload or work with the xml code either...
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:30 pm
And I wasted tiem on closing those lines ... ;-)
+1 for the Berlin school.

Code: Select all
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Uri_Herrera
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:56 pm
I've added it, but I did modify the width and move the selection upwards, also used the right color.

Image
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colomar
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:08 am
Uri_Herrera wrote:I've added it, but I did modify the width and move the selection upwards, also used the right color.

Image


It's grey here because it's disabled, right?
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Uri_Herrera
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:12 am
colomar wrote:
Uri_Herrera wrote:I've added it, but I did modify the width and move the selection upwards, also used the right color.

Image


It's grey here because it's disabled, right?


Yes.
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veqz
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:25 am
I think the cut should have the same width as the rest of the sheet, otherwise it doesn't look like it's a cut-out of the original. Could you try decreasing the width of the whole sheet to align the two widths?
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colomar
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:29 am
Uri_Herrera wrote:
colomar wrote:
It's grey here because it's disabled, right?

Yes.


Okay, just wanted to be sure I understood it correctly ;)

I'm wondering if the intended visual disconnect between the document and the cut out part is still clear enough after the change, though.
What do the others think?
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jstaniek
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:31 am
Uri_Herrera wrote:I've added it, but I did modify the width and move the selection upwards, also used the right color.
Image


How to say if this is cutting or inserting? Or renaming/changing a document title? These are just a few quite natural options, it would be easy to check with users. Would the score be better than before (5.5/10)? I bet the scissors get close to 10. How do we want to beat that?
Meaning does not have to be strict, it's not 100% science.

The monochrome icons depend on just shape unlike any other, there must not be too many icons with a document shape.

PS: The icon is only a few pixels away from a report icon :)

Image

In apps with many itemized lists (and related operations on them) the icon will hit even more conflicts.

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Uri_Herrera
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:49 am
veqz wrote:I think the cut should have the same width as the rest of the sheet, otherwise it doesn't look like it's a cut-out of the original. Could you try decreasing the width of the whole sheet to align the two widths?


All the icons with a sheet have the same width, except copy so for consistency with other icons it should remain the same.

I moved the selection 1px above the fold.
Image
pepedopolous
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon

Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:48 am
So do we have to be hostage to Uri's experiments?

I propose: -

Breeze Icon Theme (Default for Plasma 5). Minimal new metaphors. A minimum usability score of say 7...

Breeze Experimental Icon Theme (Optional). All the new metaphors you can handle! Change the system!

P
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Uri_Herrera
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Re: Feedback on edit-cut icon  Topic is solved

Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:34 am
pepedopolous wrote:So do we have to be hostage to Uri's experiments?

I propose: -

Breeze Icon Theme (Default for Plasma 5). Minimal new metaphors. A minimum usability score of say 7...

Breeze Experimental Icon Theme (Optional). All the new metaphors you can handle! Change the system!

P



Yes! muahaha :)

FYI I don't reject changes, I do reject falling back to the same ol' same ol'.

Yet duplication of efforts is not what we need.. it's not what any project needs. And for that matter Oxygen it's still there for those old gear heads.

-------------------------------

Image

There, scissors. it's already in the GitHub repo.

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