I wonder why there is no Trash/Wastebin accessible from the desktop or from the default panel.

The user is able to create and remove files from the desktop. So having a trash access there would make sense to me.

When installing Plasma for "normal" people it is always an additional step to put the wastebin widget to the panel. I don't like it so much to put it on the desktop because it does not blend with the file items (it does not snap to grid). But I would not mind having it there by default. Removing it when not needed is easier to accomplish than to search it when not present.

(About the icon design: indeed, at least on my openSUSE installation the root folder in dolphin has the same red tone as the trash icon, which is not optimal for my taste, e.g. see viewtopic.php?f=285&t=127490. But for me this is a minor issue compared to the one above.)

Since openSUSE 12.1 this seems to be an issue: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread. ... nSUSE-12-1

gregormi wrote:Since openSUSE 12.1 this seems to be an issue: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread. ... nSUSE-12-1

Well, the "issue" is caused by the fact that openSUSE copies some icons to the ~/Desktop folder on first login (Firefox, LibreOffice, ...), but no Trash icon.
And nobody ever filed a bug report or wishlist item about this AFAIK.

Anyway, with the current Plasma5 packages, this is "fixed", so to say.
No icons are copied at all, so you see the default ones for the home folder and the trash (unless you already have ones in your ~/Desktop folders).

That other forum thread you mentioned is about this btw, the poster (who is using openSUSE) is unsatisfied with the trash icon on the "desktop" looking like a folder (with a trashcan symbol) in the Breeze icon theme.

Anyway, you should be able to open the trash folder via the Kickoff application launcher ("Computer" tab), you can add the "Trash" plasmoid to your desktop/panel yourself, or you can even create one in your folderview.

wolfi323 wrote:

gregormi wrote:Since openSUSE 12.1 this seems to be an issue: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread. ... nSUSE-12-1

Well, the "issue" is caused by the fact that openSUSE copies some icons to the ~/Desktop folder on first login (Firefox, LibreOffice, ...), but no Trash icon.
And nobody ever filed a bug report or wishlist item about this AFAIK.

I filed a feature request at openFATE https://features.opensuse.org/318123 11 month ago. It seems not to get much attention there.

wolfi323 wrote:Anyway, with the current Plasma5 packages, this is "fixed", so to say.
No icons are copied at all, so you see the default ones for the home folder and the trash (unless you already have ones in your ~/Desktop folders).

(I have no Trash icon on the desktop. I tried to create a link by dragging and dropping it from the dolphin places to the desktop but it has no effect.)

wolfi323 wrote:Anyway, you should be able to open the trash folder via the Kickoff application launcher ("Computer" tab)

In Plasma 5.4.2 it seems to be called "Application launcher" but under the "Computer" tab there is no Wastebin/trash item among the places.

wolfi323 wrote:You can add the "Trash" plasmoid to your desktop/panel yourself, or you can even create one in your folderview.

Thanks for the hints. I am looking for a solution that provides a more "stable" - ideally distro-invariant - method for accessing the trash which does not involve initial manual interaction for each user for which I install Plasma.

Currently, the default distro-invariant Plasma way that does not involve manual initial work seems to be to:
- open Dolphin and
- choose "Wastebin" from the Places panel.
I find that a bit hidden for such a widely-used desktop element as the Trash.

So, the idea is to add a Trash icon to the default panel or to the desktop. The more advanced user could remove them easily.

gregormi wrote:

wolfi323 wrote:

gregormi wrote:Since openSUSE 12.1 this seems to be an issue: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread. ... nSUSE-12-1

Well, the "issue" is caused by the fact that openSUSE copies some icons to the ~/Desktop folder on first login (Firefox, LibreOffice, ...), but no Trash icon.
And nobody ever filed a bug report or wishlist item about this AFAIK.

I filed a feature request at openFATE https://features.opensuse.org/318123 11 month ago. It seems not to get much attention there.

Yeah, so not really many people seem to miss that...

Anyway, we don't ship KDE4 any more and this is "fixed" in Plasma5, by default a fresh user account will get an icon for Home and one for Trash on first login.

wolfi323 wrote:Anyway, with the current Plasma5 packages, this is "fixed", so to say.
No icons are copied at all, so you see the default ones for the home folder and the trash (unless you already have ones in your ~/Desktop folders).

(I have no Trash icon on the desktop. I tried to create a link by dragging and dropping it from the dolphin places to the desktop but it has no effect.)

Try on a fresh user account.
An existing ~/Desktop will not be changed.

wolfi323 wrote:Anyway, you should be able to open the trash folder via the Kickoff application launcher ("Computer" tab)

In Plasma 5.4.2 it seems to be called "Application launcher" but under the "Computer" tab there is no Wastebin/trash item among the places.

I was talking about KDE4 here. But yes, Kickoff is displayed as "Application Launcher" in Plasma 5.
And that one should also have a "Trash" link on the "Computer" tab.
At least it does here (yes, Plasma 5.4.2).

But openSUSE uses the new Kicker ("Application Menu") by default.

wolfi323 wrote:You can add the "Trash" plasmoid to your desktop/panel yourself, or you can even create one in your folderview.

Thanks for the hints. I am looking for a solution that provides a more "stable" - ideally distro-invariant - method for accessing the trash which does not involve initial manual interaction for each user for which I install Plasma.

All of them are "distro-invariant".

Again:
- Drag the trash folder from Kickoff ("Application Launcher") to the desktop/folderview
- or right-click on the desktop (or click on the panel toolbox icon), choose "Add Widgets" and add a "Trash" plasmoid
(you can automate that for all user accounts by creating a plasma script that's called automatically for every user on first login)
- or, not mentioned yet here: right click on the desktop (or in dolphin after browsing to the ~/Desktop folder), select "Create New"->"Link to URL" and enter "trash:/" as URL.

A fresh user account should have one by default on the "desktop" (i.e. in the folderview).

Another option: copy the file /usr/share/kio_desktop/directory.trash (shipped with Plasma5) to your ~/Desktop folder and rename it to something like "Trash.desktop".
This is what a new user account gets on first login.

Currently, the default distro-invariant Plasma way that does not involve manual initial work seems to be to:
- open Dolphin and
- choose "Wastebin" from the Places panel.
I find that a bit hidden for such a widely-used desktop element as the Trash.

That's another way, and the same Places panel (with the same Trash icon) exists in any KDE file dialog.

About "widely-used desktop element": I haven't used the Trash in the last 12 years.
The first thing I do on a fresh KDE installation is to enable the "Delete" option.
If I want to delete a file/folder, I want to delete it. Not move it to some other folder.

So, the idea is to add a Trash icon to the default panel or to the desktop. The more advanced user could remove them easily.

Again, there is a Trash icon on the default desktop (folderview) in openSUSE's Plasma5.

Thanks for the detailed and persistent reply!

Anyway, we don't ship KDE4 any more and this is "fixed" in Plasma5, by default a fresh user account will get an icon for Home and one for Trash on first login.

I tried again and found out where the problem is. On my openSUSE 13.2, Plasma 5.4.2, an empty user gets indeed the Home and Trash desktop items put into ~/Desktop. But when I right-click the desktop to open the Settings there is "Desktop" chosen as layout and not "Folder View", so the desktop was empty. I switched to "Folder View" and everything is as fine as you described. I'll file a bug for the wrong default layout.

Curiously, on my regular user which migrated from Plasma 4 I don't have the option the choose "Desktop" layout because the combobox is grayed out.

Kickoff is displayed as "Application Launcher" in Plasma 5.
And that one should also have a "Trash" link on the "Computer" tab.
At least it does here (yes, Plasma 5.4.2).

I confirm that for the new / empty user you are right. For my migrated user I double-checked: no Wastebin icon. Anyway, I am glad that is works for a new user.

Another option: copy the file /usr/share/kio_desktop/directory.trash (shipped with Plasma5) to your ~/Desktop folder and rename it to something like "Trash.desktop".
This is what a new user account gets on first login.

(bold text by me)

Good to know!

So apart from the above-mentioned issue (wrong default desktop layout) the topic is successfully solved. Thanks!

gregormi wrote:I tried again and found out where the problem is. On my openSUSE 13.2, Plasma 5.4.2, an empty user gets indeed the Home and Trash desktop items put into ~/Desktop. But when I right-click the desktop to open the Settings there is "Desktop" chosen as layout and not "Folder View", so the desktop was empty. I switched to "Folder View" and everything is as fine as you described. I'll file a bug for the wrong default layout.

The default layout is *not* wrong.
It is "Desktop" on purpose, in KDE and in openSUSE.

In openSUSE, a folderview plasmoid should be added to the desktop by default though.

If that doesn't happen on your system:
do you have plasma5-workspace-branding-openSUSE installed?
If not (i.e. if you have plasma5-workspace-branding-upstream), you get the standard KDE defaults, which don't have a folderview I think.

wolfi323 wrote:

gregormi wrote:I tried again and found out where the problem is. On my openSUSE 13.2, Plasma 5.4.2, an empty user gets indeed the Home and Trash desktop items put into ~/Desktop. But when I right-click the desktop to open the Settings there is "Desktop" chosen as layout and not "Folder View", so the desktop was empty. I switched to "Folder View" and everything is as fine as you described. I'll file a bug for the wrong default layout.

The default layout is *not* wrong.
It is "Desktop" on purpose, in KDE and in openSUSE.

In openSUSE, a folderview plasmoid should be added to the desktop by default though.

If that doesn't happen on your system:
do you have plasma5-workspace-branding-openSUSE installed?
If not (i.e. if you have plasma5-workspace-branding-upstream), you get the standard KDE defaults, which don't have a folderview I think.

I have "plasma5-workspace-branding-openSUSE" installed. I remember the default folderview you mentioned from the original openSUSE release. But it is not there with a new user and plasma 5.

Thanks for clarifying. Hmm, the empty "Desktop" layout is on purpose? Do you know why? Because it seems less functional -- and misses the trash

gregormi wrote:I have "plasma5-workspace-branding-openSUSE" installed.

Then a folderview widget should be added to the desktop on first login.
plasma5-workspace-branding-openSUSE contains a Plasma script that does that.

I remember the default folderview you mentioned from the original openSUSE release. But it is not there with a new user and plasma 5.

It should be.
And it is added here.

Thanks for clarifying. Hmm, the empty "Desktop" layout is on purpose? Do you know why? Because it seems less functional -- and misses the trash

The empty "Desktop" layout is on purpose since the first KDE4 release. Although KDE 4.0 did add icon plasmoids for each file in ~/Desktop/ on first login, which didn't work great really, and was replaced by the folderview plasmoid in 4.1.

Why?
Probably because not everyone wants to have the content of ~/Desktop displayed on his desktop. (this is just something Windows introduced at some point)
Maybe because you need some free space if you want to add Plasmoids to the desktop.

wolfi323 wrote:The empty "Desktop" layout is on purpose since the first KDE4 release.

So this decision was made quite some time ago. Maybe it need to be revised.

wolfi323 wrote:Why?
Probably because not everyone wants to have the content of ~/Desktop displayed on his desktop. (this is just something Windows introduced at some point)
Maybe because you need some free space if you want to add Plasmoids to the desktop.

Thanks for the explanation. The following is not directed to you specifically, but to the explanation in general. For me the arguments do not sound quite convincing, because:

1) "...not everyone wants to have..." sounds like most of the people indeed would not mind having it.
2) If Desktop items are not to be placed on the desktop then why does the Desktop folder exist in the first place?
3) If someone needs all the space for plasmoids he could easily delete all items from the desktop (by default there are even only two, so space is enough).
4) Placing and moving Plasmoids around is currently much more complicated than dragging the items of the folder view.

My proposal is to make "Folderview" the default desktop layout, instead of "Desktop". I wonder what others say. I'll open another topic for that.

Still no show with openSUSE 42.1 with Plasma5/KDE 5.5.4.

So a few questions:

1) "Dolphin" is a pretty weird name for a file system manager. I rarely use a GUI for file system management as "ls", "mv", "rm" et al. work pretty well, but sometimes I use an application and accidentally delete something into the Trash. I am less likely to remember "$HOME/.local/share/Trash/files" than I am "Dolphin", but either one is not especially obvious.

2) Between KDE and openSUSE, is there any usability testing done using subjects not previously subjected to KDE?

3) when using the search box in the "start" menu, wouldn't it be useful to suggest "Dolphin" for "trash" or "file manager"?

Sigh. After 30 minutes of Googling and futzing around, I have my 30 second recovery task complete now.

bkorb wrote:Still no show with openSUSE 42.1 with Plasma5/KDE 5.5.4.

What do you mean with that?
As already mentioned, openSUSE Leap 42.1 does have a link to the trash folder in the folderview applet that's on the desktop by default.
Of course that default only applies to a fresh user account, as indicated.

If you reuse an existing one, your ~/Desktop/ folder will not be changed.

1) "Dolphin" is a pretty weird name for a file system manager. I rarely use a GUI for file system management as "ls", "mv", "rm" et al. work pretty well, but sometimes I use an application and accidentally delete something into the Trash. I am less likely to remember "$HOME/.local/share/Trash/files" than I am "Dolphin", but either one is not especially obvious.

So you prefer to have 3 (or more) different applications named "file manager" or "files", like GNOME calls theirs?
Actually you can tell the application menu to show the description instead of the name if you prefer that. It's the default for Kickoff (the one that was already there in KDE4), but openSUSE uses the new Kicker by default.

2) Between KDE and openSUSE, is there any usability testing done using subjects not previously subjected to KDE?

Both are community projects. Feel free to do usability testing and report problems.
But AFAIK KDE does some usability testing.

openSUSE does not, at least not for KDE/Plasma.

3) when using the search box in the "start" menu, wouldn't it be useful to suggest "Dolphin" for "trash" or "file manager"?

It does here (Kickoff), at least when searching for "file manager".
Why should "trash" suggest dolphin?

You're right though that Kicker doesn't find dolphin when searching for file manager, as it only displays (and searches for) the name by default.
As mentioned, you can change this in its settings.
But dolphin is actually included in the default favorites too, how can you not find it?

Btw, the trash is reachable on the "Computer" tab in Kickoff, and it's also listed in the "places" panel that's in every file open/save dialog, not only in dolphin.
And there's also a "trash" plasmoid.

But why do you use/need the trash at all, if you prefer the command line anyway?
For KDE, you can enable a "delete" option though (that doesn't use a trash folder) in dolphin's settings.

wolfi323 wrote:

bkorb wrote:Still no show with openSUSE 42.1 with Plasma5/KDE 5.5.4.

What do you mean with that?
As already mentioned, openSUSE Leap 42.1 does have a link to the trash folder in the folderview applet that's on the desktop by default.
Of course that default only applies to a fresh user account, as indicated.

I did a fresh install and did not copy any settings. I only moved over work directories

1) "Dolphin" is a pretty weird name for a file system manager. ...

So you prefer to have 3 (or more) different applications named "file manager" or "files", like GNOME calls theirs?

I mostly think it would be useful to search for a command related to "file" respond with "Dolphin" as a possibility.

Actually you can tell the application menu to show the description instead of the name if you prefer that. It's the default for Kickoff (the one that was already there in KDE4), but openSUSE uses the new Kicker by default.

Hmm. Looks like our SuSE friends are being unhelpful here. Fundamentally, I am in favor of not having to remember stuff, and what I do have to remember should be related well enough to be obvious. To be explicit, I am not suggesting or hinting at a rename of Dolphin, that ship sailed. I am suggesting that a search for "wastebasket" or "file manager" should suggest Dolphin without requiring folks know that there is some way to hook up descriptions into the search. It's nice to know that that is possible and I'll likely do it.

2) Between KDE and openSUSE, is there any usability testing done using subjects not previously subjected to KDE?

Both are community projects. Feel free to do usability testing and report problems.

OK, I think I've found a usability issue here. I did a fresh install and I did not find any wastebaskets lying about on the desk top.

openSUSE does not, at least not for KDE/Plasma.

:(

It does here (Kickoff), at least when searching for "file manager".
Why should "trash" suggest dolphin?

'cuz emptying and restoring trash is a function in Dolphin. Click on the trash icon and you are offered the "empty" option and click on the files within the trash and you are offered the "restore" option. Looks like trash functionality to me....

But dolphin is actually included in the default favorites too, how can you not find it?

That stylized file folder was sufficiently stylized that I didn't recognize it and "Dolphin" had no meaning for me. So if I cannot figure out what it is, I can't find it even if looking at it.

Btw, the trash is ... listed in the "places" panel that's in every file open/save dialog,

Indeed it is. Now I know. I deleted an image in DigiKam and it doesn't have a file->open But thank you. They do have a "do you really want to delete that", but I delete 95% of my photos and I knew accidental deletes were recoverable. Just did not remember how to recover.

But why do you use/need the trash at all, if you prefer the command line anyway?

Because I use DigiKam and if they have a command line method for using it, I doubt I'd use it. Playing with photos pretty much requires a GUI.

Thank you for taking the time to explain a couple of points I didn't know. Regards, Bruce

[quote="bkorb]I did a fresh install and did not copy any settings. I only moved over work directories[/quote]
Sorry, but a fresh user account does get a trash icon in the folderview applet that's added on first login in openSUSE.

Except when you installed plasma5-workspace-branding-upstream instead of plasma5-workspace-branding-openSUSE (as I already mentioned in this thread), as this is an openSUSE specific change. The upstream (i.e. KDE's) defaults do *not* create a folderview applet and just have an empty desktop.

I mostly think it would be useful to search for a command related to "file" respond with "Dolphin" as a possibility.

As I wrote, go into the application menu settings (right-click on the icon) and change them to show the description as well or only.
Or switch to Kickoff by right-clicking on the icon and selecting "Alternatives".
Or use KRunner (Alt+F2 or Alt+Space) to search.

And feel free to file a bug report at http://bugs.kde.org/ that Kicker by default only searches by name, not description.

Hmm. Looks like our SuSE friends are being unhelpful here.

Hm?
First of all, this is unrelated to SUSE (that's the correct spelling), which doesn't even offer Plasma5 (yet).

And this was decided in a public team meeting via IRC.
Back then, Kicker had some features not available in Kickoff, and also Kickoff had some problems (which should be fixed in 5.5 because it has been ported to use the same backend as Kicker).

And as mentioned already, we (openSUSE) do add a folderview by default which is not there in the "upstream version".

OK, I think I've found a usability issue here. I did a fresh install and I did not find any wastebaskets lying about on the desk top.

Well, I suppose one can also argue against that this being a usability issue.

But a fresh user account does get a folderview with a trash icon in openSUSE.

'cuz emptying and restoring trash is a function in Dolphin. Click on the trash icon and you are offered the "empty" option and click on the files within the trash and you are offered the "restore" option. Looks like trash functionality to me....

But that's actually unrelated to dolphin.
And dolphin allows you to rename files too, but still I wouldn't expect to find dolphin when searching for "rename".

I deleted an image in DigiKam and it doesn't have a file->open

Well, I'm sure it does show a file open/save dialog for certain actions...

And IIANM, the upcoming KF5 version of digikam does allow you to access the Trash as well.

wolfi323 wrote:And IIANM, the upcoming KF5 version of digikam does allow you to access the Trash as well.

That will be excellent. I think, though, the word "Dolphin" has been pretty thoroughly burned into my brain by now.

Thank you again - Bruce