One of the great benefits, using Linux, is that I do not have to boot when the System is updating.
I am sure there was a lot of work that has to be done to make this offline updates posible.
But I am not a fan.

Please undo it.

(I like KDE Neon. I use it on all my systems and make friends and relatives use it. Thank you !)



Edit:
kwriteconfig5 --file discoverrc --group Software --key UseOfflineUpdates --type bool false

Thank you !

jweyers wrote:One of the great benefits, using Linux, is that I do not have to boot when the System is updating.
I am sure there was a lot of work that has to be done to make this offline updates posible.
But I am not a fan.

Please undo it.

(I like KDE Neon. I use it on all my systems and make friends and relatives use it. Thank you !)



Edit:
kwriteconfig5 --file discoverrc --group Software --key UseOfflineUpdates --type bool false

Thank you !

Thanks for the tip!

I have to agree that this approach is a bit heavy handed, how-ever there are times I have been left with a broken plasma sessions in the middle of an update. Woops right click in dolphin stopped working again, oh, oh you silly updates. What are you doing back there?

Do we have to go completely offline to apply all types of updates? Seems like most of the time if we just shut down the display-manager and applied the updates then you could cover most updates and not have to go through a complete reboot cycle? It would add some complexity no doubt, is it worth it?

I did turn off this feature even though I think for most people they would prefer the complete reboot route for the stability. Maybe if updates weren't so frequent seems like I am getting asked to reboot for updates all the time now.

This seems like a step back for me too. I like that when Linux is done updating (online), I know that the next boot will be as fast and uneventful as I expect it to be the next time I power up the computer. When I turn it on, it's because I want to use it now, not at some indeterminate point in the future.

On a couple of my PCs, I still have that Windows thingy on there, a vestige of the way it came out of the box more than anything. I keep it around in case I need to see how a hardware device or other such thing behaves there, stuff like that, so I have on occasion booted Windows to that end, and when it refuses to shut down without updating, or reboot without updating, or boot up without updating, it really reminds me of why I don't use Windows anymore. The last thing I want is for that bit of Windows to come over to Linux. What's next? A big sad-face emoticon and a message "something went wrong" with a QR code in case of a kernel panic? (Granted, I haven't had one in more than six years, but I 'member!)

I have of course experienced the strange behavior that can sometimes take place with an online update. If it's intolerable, then I reboot, but most of the time it all works fine, so I can just reboot in the normal course of things, whenever that may be. Doing the (double) reboot prophylactically to head off the possibility that things may occasionally get weird and require a single reboot seems excessive. Maybe for people who are not tech oriented, who might be frightened or confused when things get weird, the offline updates may be preferred, but for me, when things get weird with a given program, I remember that it was one of the things in the update I just allowed not that long ago, so it's no mystery what is going on. I've never had it go so badly wrong during an online update that it required any sort of repair... just a reboot and it fixes it right up.

As such, I would be one of those who would appreciate an option to disable this in Discover's settings UI.

I too have to echo what has been said here...
In the past 10 yrs, I have only had 2 "panics" to where I created an account to speak up... This, THIS is one of those 2 times. Recreating Microsoft's Torture Arena (Aka, "Getting updates ready" "Installing updates, go shopping while you wait days for your computer to freaking boot, because you aren't doing anything important!") is going backwards. You might as well make the entire UI "Metro" and have it come with a Metro-male-with-a-strong-lisp that says "HiiiiiiiiiiI! We're Metro-fying your computer."
The absolute last thing I want to do is watch another spinning circle for hours, and get met with a Metro "HIIIIIII!"
Please, don't do this. Either make it optional (And OFF by default) or take it back. Because, at this point, it's looking like I have to add "Make a decent NON METRO DE" to my already long to-do list.

Hmmn, I wonder if I can make Gnome look like KDE... >.>

I love the idea of this -- and I really do like that apps no longer break while running if something underneath is updated.

However, it is just too slow. Double reboots with an install processing step takes several minutes even on my NVMe drive.

That is a large regression from the 30 odd seconds it normally takes for a plain reboot after some updates.

apachelogger wrote:I'm being told discover might grow a gui option for this somewhere since you asked for it.

And here we go: https://pointieststick.com/2021/04/16/t ... -optional/

apachelogger wrote:Every application that is part of the system (i.e. installed as a deb) is a system update.

If you update konsole and it changes the ABI of the konsole kpart that breaks dolphin's embedded terminal. "application" doesn't really mean anything from a programming perspective.

all is very much true, with a smallish problem. system's (package) updates are not usually breaking the ABI contracts (at least one doesn't expect this to happen while using debian based system with some history behind) - this makes one's teeth to gnash, specially if we put replica of neon be "packaged on a rock-solid base of Ubuntu LTS". if we require reboot with any update, then all this is just empty statement with no particular meaning.

of course, it would be ridiculous to expect this not to happen, specially with the short release cycles needed to keep such nifty user experience which KDE provides.
all this being said (and perhaps I should have started with that) - deb based systems have no technical problem to cope with such situations, system provides all the necessary tools by default, which allows side-by-side deployment (and use) of multiple providers of same dependency, at different ABI versions (reduced/enhanced), their users, and all this down to _symbol_ level changes.

because here "reboot required" is just ugly shortcut, not a technical limitation or system's deficiency.

br,
mk

Thanks for the help everyone. I have turned this option off.

I agree with the arguments that for non-power users having to wrestle with a mis-configured system is a problem (I have had trouble logging off after applying updates and had to manually kill the session for example). However, this must be balanced by the problem that a consisently quick boot up sequence is very important for a large number of us - if I need to urgently respond to something (which happens frequently) a multi-minute reboot is a vexing problem.

Of course there are multiple solutions. The first is choice and I hope a GUI option comes along soon.
The others are
1. apply updates on shutdown
2. non-base system updates can be applied with a re-log in (*somehow*!) This is what I tend to do manually anyway.

Thanks everyone for the help and the config info.

KDE Will Now Let You Easily Disable Offline Updates - this change will appear with Plasma 5.22.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ne-Updates

apachelogger wrote:No. Non-system software does not. Namely: third party extensions from the KDE store (icon packs, themes and the like), snaps, flatpaks, and appimages.

Does it mean that when offline updates are enabled, all updates except mentioned will be shown as "System upgrade" and will require reboot?

I'm sorry, I really love Neon, but I think the off-line updates the way is implemented right now it's aweful.
For instance, I just got an update for Brave Browser and I'm asked to restart... What??? Come on!
It's true that there are things that don't behave well without a restart, but couldn't be possible to just ask for a restart when that's really the case?
Now absolutelly everything, but really everything, is taken as a system update and needs a restart, how come Brave Browser is a system component?? I don't even use it as my default browser, which is Firefox by the way.
Also, the thing that makes you restart, performs the updates and then restarts yet again, makes me feel I'm using Windows...
IMHO this off-line thing is not a good move, I'll have to go to pkcon way each time... At least for now.

Regards.

> "application" doesn't really mean anything from a programming perspective.

Pff.. Of course, there *is* a clear distinction between an application and a dynamic loadable.

But thatʼs not the key point. Could you please point us to discussion, where the idea, that when any single package is upgraded, the whole system has to be restarted, came into being?

Iʼm really curious, what it was so hard to check whether any outdated libraries are in use after an upgrade and to suggest a user to restart the relevant processes only?

Actually, APT has been doing that for your for many years already, cf. needrestart(8).

I just got another update for Brave Browser, and not only I had to restart, but after restarting it installed it and automatically restarted again so, TWO restarts just to update Brave Browser, which by the way I didn't even use in that session, so there was nothing running or locked or nothing from Brave...
This new update thing is aweful.


EDIT: Looking forward for Plasma 5.22 to be able to disable this from the GUI

I wouldn't mind this as much if user software only updated as often as the kernel.

The fact that I've had updates multiple times a week that ask me to reboot is a massive annoyance.

I've had my fair share of problems with apt - I've had to recover my system from a LiveUSB before because the power cut out before dpkg completed, making the system unbootable - and I still want to be able to sell novice computer users on Linux. In most cases, I think it's a massive improvement, but this is a sore point.

But I don't think this system works with the kind of release cadence KDE Neon has, which is pretty rapid.

Also bear in mind that some packages aren't being updated by the Neon team, but the Ubuntu team - just today I had an update for GStreamer from upstream.