(Sorry, just noticed this is just about forums.kde.org, but not KDE itself, I try to move it where appropriate in a second or if an Administrator can do this, it's appreciated, sorry)


I'm and was a vivid user of FreeBSD and KDE (where I had to fiddle around to make things work, even basic things), and recently switched to Kubuntu 8.1 and Linux therefore, and I was excited by the new design of 4.1, yet, the functionality was a great disappointment:

- whenever I try to move a new application on the panel/dock, I have to fiddle around and try to avoid that my "Opera" icon next to the "Firefox" icon fits in the panel/dock, as I don't know when "Opera" is called with "Firefox" and causing trouble - I don't want "Firefox" to open "Opera", I want the "Opera" next to the "Firefox" icon in the dock . . . . this is a problem since early version of KDE, and still NOT resolved in 4.1

- I'm a power user, I have 5-6 windows open under Firefox/Opera/Konqueror with 60-80 webpages in the tabs, 4-5 xterms with 10-20 screen sessions, Inkscape, GIMP and few other apps. When all those applications icons try to fit in the "Task Manager" in the panel/dock, those icons get so small no way to recognize it anymore . . . . does this mean, KDE users are only entitled to run as little applications so I can still recognize those icons in the Task Manager of the panel? E.g. 5 or 6 applications?

- network setting, by default it set my system to use DHCP, which is fine, but now I wanted to switch to static IP - I tried to find the way to set a static IP, in the System Settings -> Network, but there, the obvious place, there was no way to set a static IP. I found then "Network Manager" in the panel/dock (Earth icon, very informative!), there is a cumbersome interface which let's me enter a static IP, which at the end DID NOT WORK. What a piece of ****^H^H^H^Hhalfbacked piece of software to say it bluntly. Do I really need to go back on the command line to set a static IP under KDE? This can't be true!

- I try to configure the key shortcuts to switch between different virtual space, I go into that menu, there I can define the amount of virtual spaces, but I cannot define the key shortcuts there . . . . it's somewhere else, somewhere hidden behind 2-3 submenus I can't recall, but I once found it . . . THAT IS REALLY REALLY bad useability.


A few days ago I've got my hand on a MacBookPro running MacOSX 10.5.6 for the first time, and you know, configuring network was easy, defining key shortcuts to switch spaces was there where the Spaces are defined, and when I tried to move a new icon to the dock, the other icons moved aside after a few moments, recognizing I didn't try to open "Opera" with "Firefox", but place the icon in the dock/panel . . . . is it that difficult to have KDE be as useable as MacOSX, if not, WHY NOT?

Btw, I noticed something pleasing, under MacOS-X there is hardly any "OK", "Apply" and "Cancel", all settings are effective immediatly . . . . worth to think of to adapt this behaviour.

And last but not least, I rather want to use KDE than any closed source approach (like MacOSX or Opera), but after years KDE getting only slowly better in useablity, and Firefox using immense amount of memory compared to Opera and even slower than Opera . . . is a let down.

Instead to make eye candy splash screens for KDE, it would be good to make the panel/dock really useable .... in the details especially (that man power which went into the new way to configure the dock/panel could have been invested to make those things I mentioned above actually WORK finally).


Thanks for listening,

Rene Mueller
the-labs.com

PS: I really start to appreciate Dolphin . . . looks promising.

Moved to the appropriate section. Please try to avoid posting so many topics in one thread, but rather, use a separate thread for each one.

- whenever I try to move a new application on the panel/dock, I have to fiddle around and try to avoid that my "Opera" icon next....

I have both FF and opera and I dont have this problem. Try dragging and dropping the icon from kicker.

- I'm a power user, I have 5-6 windows open under Firefox/Opera/Konqueror with 60-80 webpages in the tabs, 4-5 xterms with 10-20 screen sessions, Inkscape, GIMP and few other apps. When all those applications icons try to fit in the "Task Manager" in the panel/dock....

Right click on the task manager and choose "Task Manager settings". Make sure you have "Grouping" enabled.

- I try to configure the key shortcuts to switch between different virtual space, I go into that menu, there I can define the amount of virtual spaces, but I cannot define the key shortcuts there . . . . it's somewhere else, somewhere hidden behind 2-3 submenus I can't recall, but I once found it . . . THAT IS REALLY REALLY bad useability.

KMenu -> System Settings -> Keyboard and mouse -> Global keyboard shortcuts. Choose "KDE component" as KWin from the drop menu and set the action for "Switch to desktop X"

LinuxIsInnovation wrote:Moved to the appropriate section. Please try to avoid posting so many topics in one thread, but rather, use a separate thread for each one.

Sure. I'm new here.
Thanks for helping out ...

- whenever I try to move a new application on the panel/dock, I have to fiddle around and try to avoid that my "Opera" icon next....

I have both FF and opera and I dont have this problem. Try dragging and dropping the icon from kicker.
[/quote]

It is a matter of 1-2 pixels to drag the Opera icon (or whatever new app icons) on the panel aside existing icons ... you might end up starting a new program or the icons fits on the panel, it's pure luck ... it seemed better at 3.5.1, now at 4.1 it seemed more problematic again . . .

- I'm a power user, I have 5-6 windows open under Firefox/Opera/Konqueror with 60-80 webpages in the tabs, 4-5 xterms with 10-20 screen sessions, Inkscape, GIMP and few other apps. When all those applications icons try to fit in the "Task Manager" in the panel/dock....

Right click on the task manager and choose "Task Manager settings". Make sure you have "Grouping" enabled.

I tried 1 minute to get the "Task Manager Settings" . . . I got the "Panel Settings", I've got the "Dolphin" settings, finally, at some obscure place I was able to get the "Task Manager Settings", and guess what . . . there was no grouping ... that's 3.5.1 you mean, at 4.1 there is no group, you have only three settings on/off options on the "Task Manager Settings" at 4.1 .... "show task from current screen|desktop" and one another setting, group same applications is not part of it ... these are the anoyances I mean.

- I try to configure the key shortcuts to switch between different virtual space, I go into that menu, there I can define the amount of virtual spaces, but I cannot define the key shortcuts there . . . . it's somewhere else, somewhere hidden behind 2-3 submenus I can't recall, but I once found it . . . THAT IS REALLY REALLY bad useability.

KMenu -> System Settings -> Keyboard and mouse -> Global keyboard shortcuts. Choose "KDE component" as KWin from the drop menu and set the action for "Switch to desktop X"

Right . . . I figured it once out, but I keep forgetting where it is . . and I'm not the only one. THIS IS REALLY BAD USEABILITY.

I made my point, I emailed the Kwin developers 1-2 years ago about this, to make it available where the amount of spaces is defined, they told me they won't do it . . . I said, they should at least make it available at both places, they didn't. That's perhaps the price when programmers decide what's "better useability" . . . those programmers responsible for KDE require to take advise from 1) users and 2) useability experienced designers (not programmers).

Then I try MacOSX, and even without expecting it, it has exactly that setting where I expect it . . . do think this is pure luck or perhaps good useability? There is no reasons why KDE/Kubuntu is less useable than MacOSX - KDE already makes an effort to be alike eye-candy, but the useability isn't hardly improved by my opinion.


About "Network Manager", is it really broken in KDE 4.1/Kubuntu 8.1 to define static IP?


Rene Mueller
the-labs.com

DesktopDude wrote:- whenever I try to move a new application on the panel/dock, I have to fiddle around and try to avoid that my "Opera" icon next to the "Firefox" icon fits in the panel/dock, as I don't know when "Opera" is called with "Firefox" and causing trouble - I don't want "Firefox" to open "Opera", I want the "Opera" next to the "Firefox" icon in the dock . . . . this is a problem since early version of KDE, and still NOT resolved in 4.1

This is fixed in 4.2.

DesktopDude wrote:- I'm a power user, I have 5-6 windows open under Firefox/Opera/Konqueror with 60-80 webpages in the tabs, 4-5 xterms with 10-20 screen sessions, Inkscape, GIMP and few other apps. When all those applications icons try to fit in the "Task Manager" in the panel/dock, those icons get so small no way to recognize it anymore . . . . does this mean, KDE users are only entitled to run as little applications so I can still recognize those icons in the Task Manager of the panel? E.g. 5 or 6 applications?

Try adding the "Window List" plasmoid for when you have too many windows open. In 4.2 there is also automatic grouping of taskbar icons and "show only taskbar items from this desktop".

DesktopDude wrote:- network setting, by default it set my system to use DHCP, which is fine, but now I wanted to switch to static IP - I tried to find the way to set a static IP, in the System Settings -> Network, but there, the obvious place, there was no way to set a static IP. I found then "Network Manager" in the panel/dock (Earth icon, very informative!), there is a cumbersome interface which let's me enter a static IP, which at the end DID NOT WORK. What a piece of ****^H^H^H^Hhalfbacked piece of software to say it bluntly. Do I really need to go back on the command line to set a static IP under KDE? This can't be true!

Network Manager is a KDE 3.5 app. They are currently working on a KDE 4 version. But not being able to set a static IP address is not normal for Network Manager, it may be a problem with Kubuntu. In fact there seem to be a lot of problems using KDE 4 with Kubuntu, it forced an early version (4.1) on users and apparently has given a pretty poor 4.2 experience compared to other distributions as well.

DesktopDude wrote:- I try to configure the key shortcuts to switch between different virtual space, I go into that menu, there I can define the amount of virtual spaces, but I cannot define the key shortcuts there . . . . it's somewhere else, somewhere hidden behind 2-3 submenus I can't recall, but I once found it . . . THAT IS REALLY REALLY bad useability.

All the global keyboard shortcuts are in one place. If you want to set one, just go there. There are 57 keyboard shortcuts related to switching desktops, putting them there would be infeasible. I don't see why putting things in a consistent place is bad usability, but if you disagree you are welcome to submit a wishlist item on bugs.kde.org

DesktopDude wrote:A few days ago I've got my hand on a MacBookPro running MacOSX 10.5.6 for the first time, and you know, configuring network was easy, defining key shortcuts to switch spaces was there where the Spaces are defined, and when I tried to move a new icon to the dock, the other icons moved aside after a few moments, recognizing I didn't try to open "Opera" with "Firefox", but place the icon in the dock/panel . . . . is it that difficult to have KDE be as useable as MacOSX, if not, WHY NOT?

KDE 4.1 was never intended for widespread use, and because the developers never expected to have the serious problems ironed out by then. Many of them, however, are fixed in KDE 4.2. That is why you should upgrade to KDE 4.2.

DesktopDude wrote:Btw, I noticed something pleasing, under MacOS-X there is hardly any "OK", "Apply" and "Cancel", all settings are effective immediatly . . . . worth to think of to adapt this behaviour.

There was a debate about this months ago, and the decision was that this was a bad way of doing things.

DesktopDude wrote:And last but not least, I rather want to use KDE than any closed source approach (like MacOSX or Opera), but after years KDE getting only slowly better in useablity, and Firefox using immense amount of memory compared to Opera and even slower than Opera . . . is a let down.

Instead to make eye candy splash screens for KDE, it would be good to make the panel/dock really useable .... in the details especially (that man power which went into the new way to configure the dock/panel could have been invested to make those things I mentioned above actually WORK finally).

Try comparing 4.1 to 4.2 and then tell us whether it is only getting better slowly.