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On ancient times krunner (or may I say the alt+f2 shortcut) was only able to run commands. Now a days, it has become more than that. Sadly, it is missing some usability. Gnome-do is a good example (although far for perfect).

What I think is missing.

• Invoke with meta+space by default (this can be currently done by changing the shortcut)
• Clear input field with Esc.
• Exit with Esc when input field is empty.
• When multiple results toggle focus between input and results with tab (and backwards).
• Navigate results with arrow keys.
• Accept with enter.

So a normal query flow would be:

• Meta + space
• Input text
• No hits, hit esc and try again.
• Input text.
• Multiple results. Hit tab.
• scroll though the results with arrow keys.
• desired result not there. hit tab to return to input field.
• delete/add needed letters.
• desired result. hit tab.
• scroll with arrow.
• hit enter.

Clearing input with Esc sounds very nice, I think everything else is possible in 4.3 though

afaik switching result by hitting tab does work. and why do you think that "accept with enter" is missing?

Switching with tab switches to the buttons instead of straight back to the input field from the results - which I find very annoying.

This reminds me, are there any new plugins with 4.3?

Moult wrote:Switching with tab switches to the buttons instead of straight back to the input field from the results - which I find very annoying.

Just use shift+tab.

Really the only things that are not present already are 1 and 2.

@NoobSaibot

Oops. Your right, my mistake.

@TheBlackCat
Your right, tab switches to results and shift+tab switches back but it also scrolls through the results.

I think the main 2 ideas are

• Clear on esc (no matter where the focus is), exit on esc (if query is empty)
• use tab ONLY to switch between query box and results, not for browsing results. Use arrows for browsing results.

I will demonstrate why is this so bad for usability with an example that hopefully everyone can reproduce:

• open krunner.
• search for "kde" (I get about 20 hits but this info is nowhere to be seen, only the first 5 (kde4.3) or 10 (kde4.2) _hint hint_
• hit tab and scroll the first ~10 results with the arrows (or tab)
• After the fist 10 is clear you should either add more info to the query or completely change the query
• to return to the input box you must hit the arrow (or shift+tab) the same number of times as before (this case ~10). Be careful because once you reach the input box it will continue to change focus if you hit an extra shift+tab.
• delete the box with del (1 per letter) or ctrl+a and then del.
• repeat as required.

Now with a calculation

• open krunner
• enter =1+2+3
• delete the input box (again hit del 5 times of ctrl+a and then del
• enter new calculation

As you can see, in the first example I would save around 10 to 15 keystrokes. On the second around 4 OR 2 depending on your method.

Hope I have explained my self better.

jmcombatt wrote:I think the main 2 ideas are

• Clear on esc (no matter where the focus is), exit on esc (if query is empty)
• use tab ONLY to switch between query box and results, not for browsing results. Use arrows for browsing results.

I think the first is fine, but I really do not want the second. This is why we like people to break up their ideas into separate posts.

jmcombatt wrote:

• open krunner.
• search for "kde" (I get about 20 hits but this info is nowhere to be seen, only the first 5 (kde4.3) or 10 (kde4.2) _hint hint_
• hit tab and scroll the first ~10 results with the arrows (or tab)
• After the fist 10 is clear you should either add more info to the query or completely change the query
• to return to the input box you must hit the arrow (or shift+tab) the same number of times as before (this case ~10). Be careful because once you reach the input box it will continue to change focus if you hit an extra shift+tab.
• delete the box with del (1 per letter) or ctrl+a and then del.
• repeat as required.

Or:

• open krunner
• search for "kde"
• move down 10
• hit "esc"
• hit the keyboard shortcut to bring back krunner
• type in whatever you want

jmcombatt wrote:Now with a calculation

• open krunner
• enter =1+2+3
• delete the input box (again hit del 5 times of ctrl+a and then del
• enter new calculation

Once again, you could hit esc and start over. Also, if you hit ctrl+a you don't have to hit del, you can just start typing.

jmcombatt wrote:As you can see, in the first example I would save around 10 to 15 keystrokes. On the second around 4 OR 2 depending on your method.

I count a minimum of 4 in the first case and 1 in the second.

I think a better solution from re-mapping the function of the tab key would be for the focus to automatically return to the input field when you start typing again. So in your first case all you would have to do is starting typing on the keyboard and what you type is automatically added to the end of "kde". That would save two keystrokes compared to your example.

TheBlackCat wrote:

jmcombatt wrote:I think the main 2 ideas are

• Clear on esc (no matter where the focus is), exit on esc (if query is empty)
• use tab ONLY to switch between query box and results, not for browsing results. Use arrows for browsing results.

I think the first is fine, but I really do not want the second. This is why we like people to break up their ideas into separate posts.

Sorry, but I think usability must be expressed as a flow of actions. By popular demand I could split this thread in to 2 or 3 as required, but the main focus is to improve the overall usability.

TheBlackCat wrote:Or:
open krunner
search for "kde"
move down 10
hit "esc"
hit the keyboard shortcut to bring back krunner
type in whatever you want

What if instead of clearing you just wanted to add the word "forum" to get i.e. the kde forum's bookmark

The fact that closing (hiding) an app to clear the query box is one of the "fastest" way to do it demonstrates its awful usability. It is already very misguiding not to know the exact number of hits as an estimate of the query success. This means that in any given query you would either repeat the above suggested work-flow until the desired hit appeared on the visible results or, scroll up and down the results until the target is reached or choice is made to change query.

TheBlackCat wrote:I think a better solution from re-mapping the function of the tab key would be for the focus to automatically return to the input field when you start typing again. So in your first case all you would have to do is starting typing on the keyboard and what you type is automatically added to the end of "kde". That would save two keystrokes compared to your example.

I think you came up with an even better solution Gotta love KDE's forums.

What about the proposed hit counter? Would it make people queries faster/more efficient?

jmcombatt wrote:Sorry, but I think usability must be expressed as a flow of actions. By popular demand I could split this thread in to 2 or 3 as required, but the main focus is to improve the overall usability.

Not everyone has the same opinions about what would improve usability and what would hurt it. That is why each of your ideas should be posted separately, so people can express their opinion on each of those ideas. If you force me to pick, I would have to vote this idea down because the loss of usability to me from changing the tab button behavior would far outweigh any gain from the esc button behavior. I rarely clear the krunner box, but forcing me to switch buttons when focus changes from the text box to the runner list would be a huge hassle for me.

jmcombatt wrote:What if instead of clearing you just wanted to add the word "forum" to get i.e. the kde forum's bookmark

You could re-type it, it is only 3 characters.

jmcombatt wrote:The fact that closing (hiding) an app to clear the query box is one of the "fastest" way to do it demonstrates its awful usability.

I'm not arguing against the esc button idea, I am just pointing out there is an easier way to do it currently.

jmcombatt wrote:What about the proposed hit counter? Would it make people queries faster/more efficient?

I personally like it, but it is another idea that should be in a separate thread so people can vote on it separately.

If I might say my opinion

Results in krunner is ONE single input field just the same as text box any any other input.

Tab in forms is used to jump between input fields, (not within data in them).

Take a look at web. Dropdowns/ select boxes ( tag) is exact equivalent to krunner's results block.

This is why I agree with position to use tab to jump between blocks and use arrows to navigate in the lists. New users would find this way intuitive since its widely used in www.



The only point for keeping tab to navigate within results I see, that when you should have to move your hand to arrow keys. However, same could be done by binding e.g. ctrl+tab to navigate results.

Moult: test what is this?

Clear input field with Esc.

Unless it is optional I don't like it. I can clear a field with other methods and don't like to hit Esc twice to close the window.

Tenno Seremel wrote:

Clear input field with Esc.

Unless it is optional I don't like it. I can clear a field with other methods and don't like to hit Esc twice to close the window.

May I ask what other methods? are they simpler/more efficient? You must hit esc twice only if there is text on the query box. If not, just once will be sufficient.

In amarok, after Celeste's excellent usability study, esc is also the default to clear the query field. Using esc would be excellent for consistency throughout kde

I'm often using krunner. And most of the time I close it when it has something there not when it is empty. There is ctrl + A shortcut to select all text so you can write over removing previously typed text.

Tenno Seremel wrote:'m often using krunner. And most of the time I close it when it has something there not when it is empty. There is ctrl + A shortcut to select all text so you can write over removing previously typed text.

Thanks for the reply, I was just curious.

However, why would you close it most of the time? this only makes sense when you are using the calculator or the unit converter krunner. For all the other krunners (~80%) the work-flow "should" end in an enter key stroke.