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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

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anoneemouse
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:31 pm
It's really neat to have KDE applications on windows. But its a bit of a hassle to have to download a downloader which then installs packages. In a way it's trying to mimic the Linux way. My idea is as follows:

Provide each KDE application as a seperate download and require that the KDE libraries be installed before hand or provide necesary libraries with applications as is often done in windows. Give windows users what they are used to.

Some advantages to this approach:
- Windows users are no longer confused by the package manager
- Applications can be listed on download sites like softwpedia and filehippo where they will get ratings and attention
airdrik
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:17 pm
Perhaps we could build into each applications' installer the dependency management that checks that the required libraries are installed (in the expected location) and automatically installs them.

It makes sense to split up the applications (or groups of applications) because at this time most users aren't going to be using the full desktop and all applications on Windows (Plasma-desktop is rather unstable and the KDE apps don't recognize the Windows apps and services). I find myself using Kwrite and Kompare with some frequency and Dolphin/konqueror, Okular and maybe one or two others very infrequently (Windows versions are generally more convenient, and I just don't use much of the other applications when at work).

On the other hand, it is convenient having the all-in-one KDE installer, so that shouldn't go away.


airdrik, proud to be a member of KDE forums since 2008-Dec.
The User
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:14 am
"or provide necessary libraries" is impossible. Qt and all the kdesupport stuff, boost, kdelibs etc. should be downloaded with each application? You would get 500MB downloads for an application like Amarok. You need an installer. But maybe there could be some kind "meta-downloads". You download a small file installing the package with the package-manager. (and downloading the package-manager if it does not exist)
But I don't think that windows users are confused by a package-manager. That's not a special GNU/Linux-detail, it's a great concept. And it's also used by Gnome. (for example you need Fink or MacPorts to install it on MacOS X)

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Kubuntiac
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:06 pm
To me ideal is a single app installer that checks dependencies and -if not there - explains that kdelibs etc needs to be installed first (once only) and that this will speed up downloading/installation of any future programs that use these.

Personally I love Linux's package system, but find the windows installer a nightmare to navigate. Click multiple times on an unnamed 5x5px checkbox with no tooltip to upgrade your package (or delete it if you clicked the wrong number of times). It took me, an experienced Linux user, a lot of web searching and experimenting to figure it out. There is no way the average Windows user would get this.

A single app installer that automatically downloaded dependencies (just as many MS installers automatically download .net etc) would be perfect.

Failing that, at least some *decent* Linux style packagemanager like Packagekit / Adept / Synaptic.
anoneemouse
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:13 pm
IF the libraries are too big the download could maybe work in a similar way to .net framework and java where all the libraries are in the framework installer and then you install applications on top of that. Im just not sure if this could cause a dependency problem with multiple versions.
The User
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:48 pm
What would be about scripts installing missing dependencies and the installer? The scripts could be generated and Windows-users would be happy about an installer application they do not have to use.
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R_Rios
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:22 pm
I thought about make an installer for the KDElibs - which installs every KDE dependency (Qt, kdesupport, and so on) - and a installer for each appplication or group of applications. It's better than using a separate package manager that is not integrated to the system.

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The User
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:31 pm
There's nothing integrated in Windows. Why not use the existing installer for dependency-handling?
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R_Rios
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:47 pm
The User wrote:There's nothing integrated in Windows.


Add or Remove programs?

Anyway, I find it simpler this way - an installer for each program and another one for the libs. Beyond, a KDElibs installer woludn't take 500 MB - maybe installation would, but the issue here is the amount of data to download, not to install. Also, one would have to download libs just once.
The User
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:21 pm
Why shouldn't the installers use an improved version of the current installation-program?
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R_Rios
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:04 pm
Because wizard installers are much simpler to manage for Windows users.

It would be like:
- Go to Amarok website
- Download KDElibs and Amarok
- Next -> Next -> ... -> Finish
- Next -> Next -> ... -> Finish

Beyond, this way is easier to download here, install somewhere else.

If Windows had a package manager system, I'd find the current version better, but it has not.
The User
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:09 pm
-Open it
-The (modified!) package manager shows "do you really want to install it? I'll install these dependencies: ..." -> next
-License -> next
-Finish

Where's the problem? But you could keep a good package-management-tool.
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R_Rios
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:25 pm
I don't think this is intuitive for casual users. Also, it obligates them to download everything in every machine they will install anything.

But, yes, we could keep both. A wizard installer is not that hard to make.
The User
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:29 pm
Why?
The package-manager would install the dependencies, that's it.
airdrik
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KDE Windows - Seperate downloads

Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:56 pm
On the one hand, the KDE installer does a good job of managing dependencies - you select Amarok and it automatically detects that you need to install such-and-such other libraries, download, install, done; then you already have the installer and most of the base libraries to install other KDE apps.

On the other hand, it isn't the most intuitive for new users who want to install Amarok that you have to go find the KDE for windows package manager to install Amarok and its dependencies. They want to go to Amarok's site and download the Amarok installer to install Amarok. The suggestion would be for the installer to be extended to allow an Amarok (or other KDE app) installer which installs (via the main KDE installer) that app and its dependencies. Then you can have an Amarok installer, a KOffice installer, a KDE games installer, etc. all of which use the base KDE installer for the package management but bypass some of the irrelevant settings to install just that app and its dependencies.


airdrik, proud to be a member of KDE forums since 2008-Dec.


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