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A suggestion for konsole: An optional toolbar. I have made a draft:



I think the icons are intuitive enought, anyway they are:

* new tab
* close tab
* previous visited dir
* next visited dir
* up dir
* home dir
* copy
* paste
* add bookmark
* full screen
* search

The icons on the toolbar can be personalized, like all kde toolbars, with any icons available at the menu. The implementation of the toolbar is probably easy, since it is a standard feature of kde apps.

A toolbar (in general, for all apps) is specially interesting for novice users, and for users that don't remember a shortcut.

I know that many people don't like a toolbar for konsole, and many people like a toolbar for konsole. By making it optional (menu > view > show/hide toolbar), it will make happy to both users.

Thanks

Edit: Link to image converted into a image.

Nice idea, Some keyboard shortcuts differ from other applications, it would be handy to have most used actions under one click

Yes, and I usually forget some common shortcuts too because I use them very unfrequently. A toolbar always helps.

That might look nice but I find it trying to make commandline a next graphical filemanager.

The idea of commandline is to type programs with keyboard to shell. Not use toolbar buttons for programs what people type. And how many really use toolbar to copy/paste functions?

type "cd" to get home directory
type "cd.." to get one level up

I can understand the buttons for tab management (it is about app, not the shell functions) and about fullscreen and search as they are as well application actions and not just shell

Littlebit like what Termkit is doing on OS X
http://acko.net/blog/on-termkit

http://blog.easytech.com.ar/2011/05/21/ ... th-chrome/

By some reason it I would like to vote YES but some reason NO... So I don't vote... at least now.

Well, personally I will use both directory navigation icons and copy/paste icons in same cases, and I will use the equivalent commandline commands in other cases.

For example, if I am in a very deep directory and I want to get three levels up, I will probably prefer to click three times on the icon than typing "cd .." & intro (6 keys) and up_arrow_key & intro (2 keys) two times, that in total makes 10 key strokes. In that case, clicking on the icon three times is faster for me.

Another example, if I have copied some text at other window, and then I click on the konsole window, I will probably prefer to click on the paste icon than trying to remember the shortcut to paste and typing the shortcut. The click on the icon will be easier for me.

But anyway, there is no problem. You can configure the toolbar with the icons you like (menu > preferences > configure toolbar).

The draft only shows the icons that I would like. Default icons can be completely different. And most important, you can completely personalize the icons (menu > preferences > configure toolbar). For example, you can remove the icons for dir navigation or for copy/paste, and add other icons.

Even if none of the available icons are useful for a user, he/she can hide the toolbar (menu > view > show/hide toolbar). I think that this is the key of the idea: The user will have whole the freedom to personalize the app.

Well, personally I will use both directory navigation icons and copy/paste icons in same cases, and I will use the equivalent commandline commands in other cases.

What is one way and supported and those I could understand, but even faster is to highlight for copying and middle click to paste if wanted to use mouse.

I dont remember how the selection was made with keyboard (I wish I could set Shift+arrows or shift+control+arrows to that) but Ctrl+Shift with C and V copies and pastes. And works as well with mouse in TTY when mouse is enabled.

For example, if I am in a very deep directory and I want to get three levels up, I will probably prefer to click three times on the icon than typing "cd .." & intro (6 keys) and up_arrow_key & intro (2 keys) two times, that in total makes 10 key strokes. In that case, clicking on the icon three times is faster for me.

Try this

cd../../..

On US layouted keyboard, those two buttons are just next to each other, so it is much faster to type cd ../../.. than move hand to mouse and click three times.

Even if none of the available icons are useful for a user, he/she can hide the toolbar (menu > view > show/hide toolbar). I think that this is the key of the idea: The user will have whole the freedom to personalize the app.

In one special case, I think konsole (or any other console window application) is in special case that no normal user should be needed to use it. And when they do, it is usually in support person talking in phone or similar. And then it is much better that person learns the keyboard usage as it helps as well on any other situation in the future.

So by default, toolbar should be disabled and only be possible enable if user really, really wants.

As command line is shell and powertool, not a text editor or application so it needs to be very fast and easy to use no matter of situation, there the easiness to learn is little higher.

Highlighting to copy and midleclicking to paste is a possibility. I personally will never use the middleclick on a wheel to paste, since it is unconfortable. On the other hand, if copy and paste icons were totally unuseful to users, they would have been also removed from the app menu and from the right-click menu. The icons exist because they are useful for some users, so they will also be useful in a toolbar. Anyway no problem, if you don't like them, just remove them from (or don't add them to) the toolbar (menu > preferences > configure toolbar).

About the "cd../../.." command, the "/" requires shift&"7" in my keyboard, so the command implies a lot of key strokes. Also, for example, if I am using other app (firefox) with the mouse, and I click on an open konsole window, and I wish to get up 3 levels, I will probably prefer to click 3 times on the up icon before moving my hand to the keyboard. So in some cases the icon will be useful, at least for me.

Yes, the toolbar can be hidden by default, no problem. Just give the possibility of enabling it (menu > view > show/hide toolbar) to those users that would be happier (and more productive in some cases) with a toolbar.

Highlighting to copy and midleclicking to paste is a possibility. I personally will never use the middleclick on a wheel to paste, since it is unconfortable.

It can be depending mouse design. With good mouse desgin it is very comfortable to use and very quick.
Bad thing is to change it, it need to be done via xmod as Xorg is responsible to that shortcut (paste).
Good thing is, user can bind other button to do that as well.

About the "cd../../.." command, the "/" requires shift&"7" in my keyboard, so the command implies a lot of key strokes.

As I need to press Shift+7 to get /
But even then it is much faster to type ../../.. than move hand to mouse and click three times a small button.

If user can move with mouse up, back and forth, why does not user can move by double clicking a directory or open file by double clicking it in konsole window?

So we would need something what I linked to offer such to the user.

Also, for example, if I am using other app (firefox) with the mouse, and I click on an open konsole window, and I wish to get up 3 levels, I will probably prefer to click 3 times on the up icon before moving my hand to the keyboard. So in some cases the icon will be useful, at least for me.

I have seen many to use two hands when using command line. And even when browsing web. Thats why we have shortcuts like Alt+Tab, Ctrl+W, Ctrl+T, Shift+F and Ctrl+Q. As they are positioned to left hand, not to right hand (sorry those 5% people who are lefties)

Commandline is even today a non-basic user application designed to daily use. Its purpose is to be fully keyboard controlled. Mouse operation is just bonus.
Many use just xterm or other. Konsole offers some other fancy bonuses like tabbing and bookmarks, but one of the best bonuses is that it has integration to knotification system so user can set the notifications happend when silent mode or activity happens.
Others are that we have dual views and so on. So it is even more designed to power users.

On the other hand, if copy and paste icons were totally unuseful to users, they would have been also removed from the app menu and from the right-click menu. The icons exist because they are useful for some users, so they will also be useful in a toolbar. Anyway no problem, if you don't like them, just remove them from (or don't add them to) the toolbar (menu > preferences > configure toolbar).

It is different to have it behind context menu and menubar than having a toolbar. Or having a icon and icon + (context) menu option.

And as I said, it would be OK to have possibility for toolbar, but it should not be by default shown. As Konsole is a virtual terminal using xterm and user configured shell. Its use is meant to be done only with keyboard, not with mouse.

And my point still stand, it is better to user then learn to use shell from beginning so if user someday by some reason need to solve something on any other computer or different situation, shell ain't problem because there just does not happend to be up or back/forth (Alt+F & B shortcuts btw) buttons in toolbar.

I just dont know would I vote YES or NO... Need to think more about. I could see use by some people to have different views and quick access to bookmarks without menubar.

ps. Place your mockup between [ thumb=400 ]
and [ /thumb ]
codes everyone can see it right away.

It can be depending mouse design. With good mouse desgin it is very comfortable to use and very quick. Bad thing is to change it, it need to be done via xmod as Xorg is responsible to that shortcut (paste). Good thing is, user can bind other button to do that as well.

Right, but we must think in all posibilities, not only in the best one. For example, I don't have any extra button, as probably other users. I will use the paste button on the toolbar regularly.

As I need to press Shift+7 to get /
But even then it is much faster to type ../../.. than move hand to mouse and click three times a small button.

As I said, in some cases I will use a command, but in other cases I will prefer to use mouse. For intensive dir navigation I will prefer clicking on icons. We must respect all user preferences, not only our own.

If user can move with mouse up, back and forth, why does not user can move by double clicking a directory or open file by double clicking it in konsole window?

So we would need something what I linked to offer such to the user.

Good idea, that could be useful for some users. I would probably use it sometimes. Perhaps this idea should go in a different thread.

I have seen many to use two hands when using command line. And even when browsing web. Thats why we have shortcuts like Alt+Tab, Ctrl+W, Ctrl+T, Shift+F and Ctrl+Q. As they are positioned to left hand, not to right hand (sorry those 5% people who are lefties)

That maybe your prefered way to do it, but users are different and we must respect all the ways to do it. For example I don't like putting a hand on the mouse and other hand on the keyboard, I prefer both hands simetrical out of the keyboard, or both hands simetrical on the keyboard. When I am using the mouse, I prefer to switch between windows by clicking on the task applet. In fact, the task applet exists because many users prefer to use the mouse.

Commandline is even today a non-basic user application designed to daily use. Its purpose is to be fully keyboard controlled. Mouse operation is just bonus.
Many use just xterm or other. Konsole offers some other fancy bonuses like tabbing and bookmarks, but one of the best bonuses is that it has integration to knotification system so user can set the notifications happend when silent mode or activity happens.
Others are that we have dual views and so on. So it is even more designed to power users.

Exactly, konsole is a terminal with many bonuses, so it makes full of sense to add another bonus such as toolbar, that will help many users to use it more confortably.

It is different to have it behind context menu and menubar than having a toolbar. Or having a icon and icon + (context) menu option.

Right, having it on a toolbar will be easier to use (for many users like me)

And as I said, it would be OK to have possibility for toolbar, but it should not be by default shown. As Konsole is a virtual terminal using xterm and user configured shell. Its use is meant to be done only with keyboard, not with mouse.

Ok, let's hide the toolbar by default, no problem to me. But perhaps we should also hide by default the rest of bonuses such as the tabs or the menubar

And my point still stand, it is better to user then learn to use shell from beginning so if user someday by some reason need to solve something on any other computer or different situation, shell ain't problem because there just does not happend to be up or back/forth (Alt+F & B shortcuts btw) buttons in toolbar.

I disagree in this point, we must not force the user to do what we want, we must give him posibilities and freedom to choose. If he want to learn pure terminal, he has hard apps like xterm. I see the purpose of konsole to make life easier to the user, by offering bonuses that can help him. The toolbar is another bonus that will help many users. Some users will choose to use it and some others will choose to not use it. It is all about freedom.

I just dont know would I vote YES or NO... Need to think more about. I could see use by some people to have different views and quick access to bookmarks without menubar.

Well, I think that giving posibilities to the user should be always a YES. Many users want a toolbar for konsole and will use it dialy (such as me), so why don't give them a thing that they want and they will use regularly? It doesn't force the rest of users to use it, so let's implement a thing that is good for a part of the users.

ps. Place your mockup between [ thumb=400 ]
and [ /thumb ]
codes everyone can see it right away.

I'm going to try. I did put a link because I wasn't sure of Imageshack allowing to insert their images in other pages.

I have been thinking on toolbars and menubars, and I would like to share my ideas with you.

Basically, a toolbar is a shortcut to the menubar items. In other words, the toolbar items allow an easy access to the most used menu items. It takes me to the following idea, that perhaps could be an Usability Principle, and thus could be applied to every app:

If a menubar is useful in an app, then a toolbar is useful too.