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This is a rather complex idea to implement, however, I think it would be a lot better in the long run.

Right now, KWin draws the decoration of all Windows, however, this isn't the best approach, if the application itself could draw the window decoration it would open many doors (like having, both, the menubar and the window tittle in the same row), it will also make theming KDE a lot more flexible.

KWin should only handle window management, and it should have a "fallback" decoration for application that doesn't draw the border (aka, all non-kde apps in this particular scenario).

augustofretes wrote:Right now, KWin draws the decoration of all Windows, however, this isn't the best approach, if the application itself could draw the window decoration it would open many doors (like having, both, the menubar and the window tittle in the same row), it will also make theming KDE a lot more flexible.

That would make decorations quite inconsistent.
Better might be to have some kind of communication between application and decoration plugin, so that it can embed a menu.
A bit like the global menu bar works.

Applications which really want to do weird stuff can always ask the window manager to not do a decoration and fortunately the window manager can, e.g. at the user's request, still ignore that.

Cheers,
_

anda_skoa wrote:That would make decorations quite inconsistent.

No,if the application itself draws it, and by domino effect, the theme, it would look as consistent as theme developers wants, also, it doesn't change anything if the developer decides to, but it opens many possibilities without taking anything .

anda_skoa wrote:Better might be to have some kind of communication between application and decoration plugin, so that it can embed a menu.

Seems harder, and more like a workaround. I never got why the Window Manager had to draw the decoration.

anda_skoa wrote:A bit like the global menu bar works.

Applications which really want to do weird stuff can always ask the window manager to not do a decoration and fortunately the window manager can, e.g. at the user's request, still ignore that.

Cheers,
_

That's true, however, I doesn't necessarily means crazy stuff, it will make the life a LOT more easier to theme developers, since they will be able to get the desire look (and more variations on per application basis) to their designs.

It would be inconsistent, since the application would follow the theme specified by the Desktop environment it uses, or goes completely custom and doesn't fit in at all. Not to mention that different icons would be used ( and spacings / fonts ), and legacy applications.

It will make it harder for theme developers since they have to take into account the limitations placed on them by all toolkits they wish to support / the specification supports. It will also prevent them from doing the really cool things which can only be done in code.

Wouldn't the solution be to let application ask for drawing decoration itself ?

I mean, for exemple, Google Chrome : in the actual state of things, I think it's impossible to have the exact same Google Chrome on Linux than on Windows, because of the decoration.
Some application may wants not to fit the theme of their environment... and some people like that also.

So it would be good that application could ask to handle this alone, and still communicate with Kwin so the 3D effect would still be enabled (like with iTunes or Google Chrome : no decoration, but still 3D effect... whereas the linux native applications who gets decorate by themselves can't use 3D effect, right ?).

Which 3D effects? I have some applications that draw their own window decoration (XMMS to name one), and the kwin effects work fine for those windows too.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to solve, since programs today can decide not to use window decorations if they so choose. Or use their own ones. Audacious and KsCD are two apps that springs immediately to mind, not to mention some air-apps.

Putting the menubar straight in the menu bar is the only use-case I can really think of. Or think of is maybe not the best way of putting it since it was used as an example...

Still, I'm thinking that a better solution would be a plasma-windeco. That is, a windeco that can be provided the look from the plasma-theme in use.

There is many other case.
Just take a look at iTunes and Google Chrome : you can move the Windows by clicking anywhere that is not a widget.

plaristote wrote:There is many other case.
Just take a look at iTunes and Google Chrome : you can move the Windows by clicking anywhere that is not a widget.

That's not exactly limited to those apps...in KDE, hold down alt and you can drag any app that way no matter if it's a KDE app or not.

Kryten2X4B wrote:

plaristote wrote:There is many other case.
Just take a look at iTunes and Google Chrome : you can move the Windows by clicking anywhere that is not a widget.

That's not exactly limited to those apps...in KDE, hold down alt and you can drag any app that way no matter if it's a KDE app or not.

It isn't the same. You need to press a button, on OS X you can move them by dragging the window from any empty space (Bespin has a hack to behave like this).

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Theming limitations? Theming will be greatly improved if this could be implemented, a lot more freedom imho.

augustofretes wrote:It isn't the same. You need to press a button, on OS X you can move them by dragging the window from any empty space (Bespin has a hack to behave like this).

Perhaps there should be a wishlist item for this, then.

augustofretes wrote:Theming limitations? Theming will be greatly improved if this could be implemented, a lot more freedom imho.

But as people have said, applications can already do this, and users can override it if they want. Too much freedom is not necessarily a good thing if you want things to be consistent.

You can't do it. Yes, you can make your own borders and ask KWin to not draw window decoration, but if it isn't KDE wide, it doesn't mean anything for the theme developers.

augustofretes wrote:It isn't the same. You need to press a button, on OS X you can move them by dragging the window from any empty space (Bespin has a hack to behave like this).

Well, that sounds like a kwin feature request to me: being able to drag windows from an arbitrary point without a keypress. One I'd like as well.

Still, I fail to see the connection between letting the application being in charge of the windeco and being able to drag the window from an arbitrary point. Since that arbitrary point is just that, arbitrary, it doesn't have to be in the border and so isn't necessarily connected to the border - whether or not the border is decorated by kwin or the app itself.

augustofretes wrote:You can't do it. Yes, you can make your own borders and ask KWin to not draw window decoration, but if it isn't KDE wide, it doesn't mean anything for the theme developers.

And how would that work for non-KDE apps? My guess is that those would look rather out-of-place (kinda like Windows apps using wine does. Stick out like a sore thumb).

Kryten2X4B wrote:

augustofretes wrote:You can't do it. Yes, you can make your own borders and ask KWin to not draw window decoration, but if it isn't KDE wide, it doesn't mean anything for the theme developers.

And how would that work for non-KDE apps? My guess is that those would look rather out-of-place (kinda like Windows apps using wine does. Stick out like a sore thumb).

Just like they do now. KWin could just draw a windeco for those (a fallback, workaround, far from ideal I agree), also, there's a similar idea promoted by MacSlow on the GNOME land.