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my students tried to change the wallpaper...
they knew that EVERYTHING can be changed with "systemsettings" - therefore they searched in the "appearance" section but wallpaper settings are not in the "appearance" section of systemsettings.. why?

put "Desktop Activity Settings" in Systemsettings where you can change anything from containment type to wallpaper and even add or delete activities (like the multiple desktop settings) you could even give little live previews for better distinction...

How would this work with activities and multiple screens? In 4.5 activities are no longer tied to desktops. Further, in 4.5 multiple screens are tied together in each activity, so if you have multiple monitors and you change activities both monitors change their containment. The number of visible containments per activity can change as monitors are added or removed. There can also literally be dozens of activities. Further, activities can be started and stopped, so they can run and then stop running. Also, multiple activities can have the same name, or no name. How will people identify them then? I see no way to do this without being extremely confusing and error-prone for users, and that will only lead to lots of complaints and bug reports from users.

Also, the idea that "everything" can be changed with systemsettings is false. For instance you also cannot change the containment type of a screen in an activity, anything related to the panel, the number of activities, which widgets are present, widget settings, and so on. If we put

Systemsettings is only for global plasma settings, those settings that apply to all activities, containments, and widgets. There is not a single plasma setting in systemsettings that is tied to a specific activity, containment, or widget. Why, if we put activity settings there, don't we put widget settings as well?

So your suggestion is: almost impossible to do right, highly inconsistent with how systemsettings is really used, and highly inconsistent with how plasma actually works. Rather than making a special case that makes systemsettings inconsistent, can't you just tell you students that systemsettings are only for global settings?

i get your point... though i too found it rather inconsistent that there are "appearance" settings out of the system settings "apperance" window...

maybe an "activity manager" is needed under "desktop" settings where you can do anything activity related and switch between the different activity settings or "apply to all" activities.. you can set the number of desktops there.. why not the number of activities and the containment types for them as well as the wallpapers - distinction between several activities is done by a simple live thumbnail..

the only thing you should manage directly on the desktop/activity is widgets(panels) they should definitely be independent too!!

But the desktop is itself a widget, so that would be inconsistent. The panel is far more like the desktop than it is like other widgets, so that would be even more inconsistent. I don't see why you think the activity settings alone, out of all the plasma settings that apply to just one widget, should behave completely differently.

It is also inconsistent with how this sort of behavior is configured in every other application in KDE. System settings is only used for global settings, period. There is no other instance where you configure a whole bunch of similar things like that in systemsettings, those are and should be configured in the settings for that specific thing.

The reason we configure multiple desktops in systemsettings is because it is a global setting, it applies to the entire system, not just a small part of it.

And I fail to see any benefit. We already have a way to manage activities that works perfectly well, is much easier and more natural to use, avoids all the problems, is much easier to code and maintain, is consistent, and is easier to get to. So far you haven't provided any reason to do this besides "my students don't understand what system settings is for".

It wouldn't be inconsistent to put the settings for the desktop (in particular Activities) into SystemSettings. The desktop and activities are central to the user experience. While you are correct that the desktop itself is a widget, it is a special kind of widget that displays the wallpaper and is the container for the other widgets that the user interacts with.
What seems more inconsistent (from a user pov) is that you configure the wallpaper and the activity settings by right-clicking the desktop -> desktop settings, but to configure the look of the widgets on your desktop you have to go digging in System Settings -> Appearance -> Style -> Workspace. (4.3 and before, the plasma style was configured in the desktop's settings. In 4.4 it moved to appearance, which while it makes sense since it is global across activities, and fits in with the rest of the appearance settings, it feels as though it was tucked away in a corner, not to be touched but by those who take the time to look for where they put it)
Iirc, both the Panel and the wallpaper settings were configurable via the KDE Control Center in 3.5. Otoh, multiple desktops and activities are going to be merging, so configuring multiple desktops in SystemSettings will have to go away and/or be replaced by configuring the activities.

airdrik wrote:It wouldn't be inconsistent to put the settings for the desktop (in particular Activities) into SystemSettings.

Yes, it would be inconsistent, because it is the only local (i.e. non-global) setting found anywhere in system settings.

airdrik wrote:The desktop and activities are central to the user experience. While you are correct that the desktop itself is a widget, it is a special kind of widget that displays the wallpaper and is the container for the other widgets that the user interacts with.

You could make the same arguments for the panel.

airdrik wrote:What seems more inconsistent (from a user pov) is that you configure the wallpaper and the activity settings by right-clicking the desktop -> desktop settings, but to configure the look of the widgets on your desktop you have to go digging in System Settings -> Appearance -> Style -> Workspace.

That isn't inconsistent at all. The wallpaper applies only to a single screen in a single containment, while the plasma theme applies to every widget, panel, and desktop on every screen in every activity. The first is a local setting that applies to only a small part of plasma, while the second is a global setting that applies to all of plasma. Global settings go in system settings, local settings do not.

airdrik wrote:4.3 and before, the plasma style was configured in the desktop's settings. In 4.4 it moved to appearance, which while it makes sense since it is global across activities, and fits in with the rest of the appearance settings, it feels as though it was tucked away in a corner, not to be touched but by those who take the time to look for where they put it

First, yes, this is my entire point. The plasma theme is global, while individual activity settings are not. Second, the theme is much easier to find in 4.5. It is under Workspace Appearance->Desktop Theme.

airdrik wrote:Iirc, both the Panel and the wallpaper settings were configurable via the KDE Control Center in 3.5.

The concept of activities did not exist in 3.5, so in 3.5 wallpapers were a global setting. That is no longer the case. Also 3.5 did a lot of things wrong, just because it was done a certain way in 3.5 does not mean that was a good way to do it.

airdrik wrote:Otoh, multiple desktops and activities are going to be merging, so configuring multiple desktops in SystemSettings will have to go away and/or be replaced by configuring the activities.

We'll cross that road when we get to it. At the current time they are distinct things, so they need distinct configuration tools.

whats your problem? from the users (students) view its an inconsistency ... i can understand that.. i know what systemsettings are for but it does not matter to me..

adding or removing activities is awful at this time (i hate the ZUI) and it will be reworked as far as i know.. there will be something like an activity manager ... it would be very consistent to manage everything activity related from there (not just add or remove activities) but also set their type - wallpaper - desktops(if there are any) - ecetera...

so someone will eventually put this "activity manager" into systemsettings.. (i think "kubuntu" team will do this like they did it with kpackagekit which fits perfectly into systemsettings "add/remove software")

IMHO this should be done.. if you are against.. vote against.. thx

waldelf wrote:whats your problem?

I disagree with you. Is it so terrible of me to disagree with you?

waldelf wrote:from the users (students) view its an inconsistency ... i can understand that.. i know what systemsettings are for but it does not matter to me..

My point is that I think it is better that they learn what system settings is actually meant for rather than making one random exception that confirms their misconception. If we do this, then based on this pattern we would also need to move a lot of other settings into systemsettings. If they have the wrong idea about this, then I would expect there would be other things they expect to find in system settings that aren't there. So our choices are either: duplicate everything that anyone might expect to be in systemsettings, making systemsettings confusing and inconsistent, or explain to people what system settings is really for. I think the last option is the best.

waldelf wrote:adding or removing activities is awful at this time (i hate the ZUI) and it will be reworked as far as i know.. there will be something like an activity manager ... it would be very consistent to manage everything activity related from there (not just add or remove activities) but also set their type - wallpaper - desktops(if there are any) - ecetera...

That is true, but the activity manager is not in systemsettings, it is activated, used, and designed similar to add widgets interface, so this is irrelevant to your idea.

waldelf wrote:so someone will eventually put this "activity manager" into systemsettings.. (i think "kubuntu" team will do this like they did it with kpackagekit which fits perfectly into systemsettings "add/remove software")

You say this with a great deal of certainty. On what grounds do you draw this conclusion? Developers seem happy with the activity manager where it is now, inside plasma.

As for kpackagekit, first I don't think it was developed by kubuntu at all (although I am not certain), and having it in systemsettings is not unique to kubuntu. Second, software management is once again a global setting.

waldelf wrote:IMHO this should be done.. if you are against.. vote against.. thx

The whole point of the comments section is ideas is so people can express their opinions

Whatever the case, this idea is already on bugs.kde.org so I am closing it as submitted: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155056

TheBlackCat wrote:
I disagree with you. Is it so terrible of me to disagree with you?

im sorry.. certainly not... caught me in a bad mood...

if there is a good activity manager it maybe will be obvious that this is something different than systemsettings and it will solve itself...

for some users new to kde setting the plasmatheme or the amount of desktops or the windowdeko is all the same boat... its everything you see...

I understand that, my point is that it is probably better for them to learn how KDE works because if we encourage their misconceptions it is only going to get more confusing for them as they use it more.

The bug for this that I linked to was marked as wontfix, so this idea's status has been changed to accordingly.