The question to your first question.

YES..we use koffice_2.

f1r3br4nd wrote:Half the point of using an office suite rather than something more powerful like LaTEX or Emacs is so that you can collaborate with coworkers who use Microsoft products.

TheBlackCat wrote:Fourth, a lot of work is going in to properly rendering MS Office files, but it takes time.

For me, rendering/importing is only half the battle. I'm somewhat interested in Calligra, but last I checked they had no interest in ever exporting to MS formats, which is a deal breaker for me. I understand that the newer MS Office versions can handle open formats, but, from what I read, it's hard to tell if that would get me better compatibility than simply having Libre Office export to a MS format, and it just seems more polite to stick to the format the rest of the group is using.

When it's up to me alone, I just use LyX for word processing and presentations (w/ Beamer), and Python or Octave can handle most of what I'd maybe use a spreadsheet for.

TheBlackCat wrote:For me, rendering/importing is only half the battle. I'm somewhat interested in Calligra, but last I checked they had no interest in ever exporting to MS formats, which is a deal breaker for me.

Well, that's putting it too strongly. Writing export support to Microsoft file formats is a huge task, and something that's hard to do on a purely volunteer basis, so we are actively looking for sponsorship. The sponsorship really is needed to get the export functionality done.

boudewijn wrote:

TheBlackCat wrote:For me, rendering/importing is only half the battle. I'm somewhat interested in Calligra, but last I checked they had no interest in ever exporting to MS formats, which is a deal breaker for me.

Well, that's putting it too strongly. Writing export support to Microsoft file formats is a huge task, and something that's hard to do on a purely volunteer basis, so we are actively looking for sponsorship. The sponsorship really is needed to get the export functionality done.

That was me, actually, not TheBlackCat.

And that's good to hear. I just went looking for what I'd read to give me that impression, but all I could find was a simple statement in the release announcement that there were no plans for export. So, please forgive me for spreading misinformation.

In the mean time, though, I'll still be using LibreOffice for my office suite.

No plans practically means that nobody is current working on that. If someone want to work on export filters it would of course be integrated. But finding volunteers for something like that is very hard.

I use mainly KWord and KPresenter nowadays. I pretty much only use LibreOffice to convert documents to/from other formats, rare more advanced post-editing of longer documents (like table of contents etc.) and for spreadsheeting.

I use koffice, specifically kword, kspread and kpresenter on my home desktop. On my work machines, I use libreoffice because I need things to work reliably.

I largely use the koffice suite for previewing documents. I've replaced the need for writing documents and presentations almost entirely with LaTeX, but I still need to read documents sent *to* me, so that's where koffice comes in handy.

I'd love to use it further, but often, even a slightly complicated document will cause all kinds of trouble in koffice (as you mention with your experience with tables).

I understand that the calligra suite is going to be much better to use and am waiting for them to deliver a more usable office suite. If calligra proves to be a promising match for libreoffice, I'd definitely start transitioning my work machines over. Get that first release out, calligra devs!

I tried KWrite once, maybe a year or two ago. I opened a WIP-version of my resume (.odf), made a few changes. Tried to open the file back up (I seem to recall that I saved in whatever default format it offered as a test), and it was completely garbled.

A bit gun-shy after that, esp. when the excellent LibreOffice is available.

I may try it again someday.

I understand the dependencies and hardships the devs have to face in trying to import/save MS-Office files. However, it's crucial for real world just because of % of corporate mankind using Microsoft products in present day world.

All the hard work that Calligra/KOffice devs are doing would remain under utilized/invisible to users if more KDE users don't use it as their primary office suite. And that's very difficult if MS format integration and general stability is not there. I'm sorry but that's real world. Sadly.

Import/export with MS-Office formats should be treated as basic functionality for a real world Office suite. Period.

TheBlackCat wrote:First, KOffice predates OpenOffice by years. I am pretty sure it is the oldest existing full open-source office suite. So the ones who

Second, KOffice (and Calligra) have a lot of new ideas and a substantially new and distinctive underlying architecture that is gives it much more flexibility and a lot better performance. This is why you can just pull of the desktop UI and replace if with a smartphone UI. You simply cannot do that with OpenOffice/LibreOffice, both because of how the software is designed and because of the massive resources it takes.

Third, there are a lot of problems with the OpenOffice/LibreOffice code base. It is extremely complex, hard to maintain, and hard to improve. KOffice underwent a near-rewrite a few years ago, yet it is already approaching the level where it can be used as a complete office suite. This is extremely fast compared to the pace of OpenOffice/LibreOffice development, which says a lot about the quality and power of the code base.

Before your criticize KOffice for doing such a major reworking, I should point out that there is talk amongst LibreOffice developers to do a reworking as well, now that Sun is no longer preventing it. They have also been complaining about how poor and how broken their code base is. But back when the new KOffice reworking was being done, Sun still controlled OpenOffice and was preventing any major changes from occurring.

Fourth, a lot of work is going in to properly rendering MS Office files, but it takes time. KOffice recently underwent a major overhaul, which has made good support for MS Office files possible, but it will take some work to do so fully. KOffice already renders some aspects of MS Office files, like complex Word tables, better than OpenOffice.

Dear Sir, I'm using Office for my work not to play. At work I have Mac and MS Office for Mac and at home I am running LibreOffice on FreeBSD and I have not a problem with Word and PowerPoint and compatibility is important. I am listening about KOffice twenty years and it is the same: it doesn't works for the real works. StarOffice which was FREE for OS/2 worked very well and now LibreOffice is useful too. IMO Krita should be independent application and my suggestion is that developers of LibreOffice and Calligra and KOffice step together.

I personally (as one of the koffice-developers over the last 14 years) have concluded that it makes very little sense to compete head on, in the same technology, to giants as MSOffice and to lesser extend to products like Wordperfect.

The main reason for that is that there have to be better reasons to create an office suite than to replace an existing one. It feels a little like replacing a for-pay one with a free (as in beer) one is the main goal for many.
I think that misses the point entirely. The point is not to make microsoft loose sales. I could not care less about microsoft sales of Office.
For this reason the many people that say KOffice is not useful until it can read and write MSOffice documents properly will be better off with LibreOffice.

I have been struggeling to get KOffice to focus on its potential instead of chasing taillights. Which has been hard because the taillight chasers see a proven market. MSOffice is making a LOT of money. So Nokia is one of the companies that things KOffice (now Calligra) can grab a piece of that pie. The KOffice codebase is used on their highly successful linux based phone for displaying office documents. The alternative to buy an off-the-shelf product would have been more expensive. So, chasing taillights in the form of getting MSOffice compatibility working is something that helped them. All the power to them!

The real potential of KOffice lies in being a platform instead of a set of apps. The types of content you can edit and print will be challanged and the 'office suite' koffice will not really restrict itself to only word and powerpoint like apps. I expect the real innovation to begin when people use the KOffice platform to build their next music notation and printing service. Its about the knitting patterns app, the mindmap app, a word-cloud (or tag-cloud) app and all those other things that you can print now using a custom-made application. All those apps can become stand alone, but on top of the koffice platform with just a little plugin that can be downloaded or sold to work inside of 'kword'.

zander wrote:I think that misses the point entirely. The point is not to make microsoft loose sales. I could not care less about microsoft sales of Office.
For this reason the many people that say KOffice is not useful until it can read and write MSOffice documents properly will be better off with LibreOffice.

There is a saying "Horses for courses". LibreOffice does some things very well. KOffice does some things very well. Those strengths are not the same ones. If interacting with MS-Office users is your main need, then yes, LibreOffice probably does suit you better.

KWord is the KOffice component I've used most, so the only one I can speak for - it is a very different beast from LibreOffice Writer. The interface takes a little getting used to, but its frame-based structuring of documents means that it lies somewhere between the conventional word processor and the (usually very expensive) desktop publishing application. Where layout is important (and not sharing with Office users) KWord certainly has a lot to offer.

annew wrote:
There is a saying "Horses for courses". LibreOffice does some things very well. KOffice does some things very well. Those strengths are not the same ones. If interacting with MS-Office users is your main need, then yes, LibreOffice probably does suit you better.

KWord is the KOffice component I've used most, so the only one I can speak for - it is a very different beast from LibreOffice Writer. The interface takes a little getting used to, but its frame-based structuring of documents means that it lies somewhere between the conventional word processor and the (usually very expensive) desktop publishing application. Where layout is important (and not sharing with Office users) KWord certainly has a lot to offer.

KWord or whatever Word is like a cars which are made for driving, one better one not so but all drive. And what is the point? Gasoline!! And the gasoline is like a doc, odt...it is compatibility. And it is just mine opinion.

lumiwa wrote:

annew wrote:
There is a saying "Horses for courses". LibreOffice does some things very well. KOffice does some things very well. Those strengths are not the same ones. If interacting with MS-Office users is your main need, then yes, LibreOffice probably does suit you better.

KWord is the KOffice component I've used most, so the only one I can speak for - it is a very different beast from LibreOffice Writer. The interface takes a little getting used to, but its frame-based structuring of documents means that it lies somewhere between the conventional word processor and the (usually very expensive) desktop publishing application. Where layout is important (and not sharing with Office users) KWord certainly has a lot to offer.

KWord or whatever Word is like a cars which are made for driving, one better one not so but all drive. And what is the point? Gasoline!! And the gasoline is like a doc, odt...it is compatibility. And it is just mine opinion.

Well, by your analogue then KOffice/Calligra runs off of alternative energy sources - nothing wrong with that, just use the alternative energy (which is usually cheaper anyway, just less accessible).
However, a more accurate analogue would be that the document type is the trailer that needs to be hauled. MS office is your Semi - designed for hauling trailers, LibreOffice is your suped-up pickup which hauls trailers and a few other things and provides a lot of nice perks, KOffice/Calligra is any of a number of different vehicles (mostly cars or similar) they don't haul trailers but they can haul other things and get a lot of things done. If you need to haul trailers (use MS document formats), then use MS Office or LibreOffice. If you aren't constrained to using trailers KOffice can provide you with just the right vehicle to deliver your product, and if there isn't such a vehicle available, the chassis is readily available for someone to build on top of (which I would imagine that someone with enough impetus and coding skill could build a truck for hauling trailers if they really wanted to, just don't expect the KOffice developers to do that because they've clearly stated that they aren't going to).