Not impressed.

3 reasons.

I am a firm believer in the the principle of ALL products, should contain their manuals with them.

They should NOT be a separate item, in a different location, or only available online, or after linking to an online location.

I also don't like the excuse "OH we do it that way so it can be updated" - well it should be up to date with each product release - and not as an "ad hoc" running process.

I also hate programs that have to build up an index.....

I am not interested in "all sorts of interesting excuses and work arounds and patching jobs" - I want a help manual that comes pretty much up to date with the product, at it's time of release.

Not something that is not on the system, that didn't download with the program - that is linked to some website somewhere else, and needs to have lots of clicks and "Yes's" to build up an index and download bits and all that.......


It's messy and unprofessional.

You are certainly right, but the reality is that there need to be people writing and updating those manuals and we don't have them. That's not an excuse but a fact.

Unprofessional? That's probably because the people writing are not professional. That is, they do it in their spare time, not as a paid job. They welcome people who are willing to help with writing documentation.

This is why you forum trolls suck.

Reply 1.

We don't have the people to write the manuals.

<removed>, and offer to train people or supply packs for downloading, on how to code for the program and write the manuals.


Reply 2.

Unprofessional - genuinely worthwhile people make everything to a standard; <removed>.

That is why you have no one to write manuals - because you don't recruit and train them.

And the manuals that exist are not straight forward all in one PDF's, is because <removed>.

"OH the market is not using our product?"

Well Duh.

<removed>

@Irate Shane:
You might probably notice, i banned you from this forum. After even some sane private message with the notice to honor the code of conduct you don't even seem to understand.

Irate Shane wrote:This is why you forum trolls suck.

This issue is solved, you don't need to bother with us anymore. And there is no need to insult any person trying to respond to your (honestly, just disrespectful) remarks.
There is no real need to response to any of your points, they are full of missinformation and you clearly never really worked in an OSS environment, else you wouldn't say that.

Seriously, 5 posts, and so much hatred, wow, didn't see that in a long time. If you really hate forums that much you should reconsider to visit them. Everything else doesn't make sense. This is a honest recommendation, it makes your and our life easier.

On the same theme but from a different angle, I did respond to an earlier thread about the manual but every time I went to the relevant page there was a message that it was not yet ready. I would be happy to help but need some idea of when and how to contribute.

Having used earlier versions of KOffice2 I'm not using the current version because there were too many regressions that took it below the minimum level of usability that I need - which is not very high.

However, I will certainly try again with the next version and should then be in a better position to assist in this area.

Hey John,

the KOffice team is pulling together more and more and with 2.3 you'll get a bit closer to our elusive goal of "end-user-ready". I wrote about the way to get there here; http://www.koffice.org/blogs/thomaszand ... stigation/

With a bit more clear guide of what is missing I hope you can navigate around the holes in the road and find a bit better how to get started. The good part about KWords doc is that you can take ownership of the looks and layout and design a manual the way *you* think it should look

My area of expertise is copyediting/proofreading as well as being a user. So I would be interested in contributing in that area when there is something to work on.

Back in March someone start to write http://userbase.kde.org/KWord/Manual - but nothing has been added since then. You might like to work there - zander proposed UserBase as a starting point for manuals a long time ago. Working there allows for collaboration and also for zander to help with the structure if you need it. I can help with anything mediawiki-related.

The link is a dead-end as it was when I last checked. I would find it easier if there was a simple download of the documentation to date on which I could work whenever I have time submitting comments, for example, via a forum or a dedicated email address. KMyMoney for example simply used a forum thread to accept comments and suggestions for the v. 1.0 manual.

Or do you really need an editorial team to drive the work forward?

There was a server failure a few days ago, but the link I gave you is correct, and works fine, so I don't know why you have a problem. The whole point of a wiki is that you work on the live version. You need to register in order to contribute, but after that, read http://userbase.kde.org/Tasks_and_Tools then follow the link 'Modify existing content' for instructions and notes on conventions.

I've clicked on the link but it still says the site is 'under construction.' The problem for me is that I would normally do this sort of work when I am not online. So having to work on a wiki rather constrains the amount of time I would have available for such work.

The 'Under Construction' will stay until someone decides that it is complete. Any editor can remove it, but it makes sense to tell new visitors that it is not considered a complete manual.

In theory there's nothing stopping you copying the existing mediawiki code onto your local machine and editing in any text editor, but you lose the ability to check the code by previewing. If you are willing to do the main work locally, then paste it in and check and edit online at a later stage, that's fine. There is, on some pages, a possibility that others will have edited in the meantime, but take a look at the page history. If edits are few and far between you should be safe.

If you do decide to work that way, please look at http://userbase.kde.org/Tasks_and_Tools, and print out the how-to pages that relate to what you are doing.

Additionally; if you are really adventurous you can install mediawiki on your own machine and preview it there

I still have hopes that KWord would get a mediawiki interaction docker (as well as for epub and other formats) which makes editing this and saving it as ODF possible. But I have to restrain myself from starting such projects until we have stuff more stable