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2015 funding thoughts

User avatar halla
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2015 funding thoughts

Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:05 am
I've been working on this for some time:

Pretty soon, KO GmbH will be out of the Krita business. The Krita Foundation will take over Krita Studio and Krita on Steam, so customers don't get screwed. But one of the reasons KO GmbH is going out of business is that we never made the income needed to make the company break even (let alone profitable). That doesn't bode well for the Foundation, either. Pretty soon, either the Foundation has to be able to pay me a living income, or I'll have to go and find another job. Krita development _will_ slow down considerably then!

So, here's a plan I've been preparing for next year. Part of it is about invigorating the development fund subscriptions part for individuals, part of it is an attempt to figure out how to get companies to take up responsibility one way or another.

I see two possibilities: make a second development fund subscription for companies that includes all the Krita Studio perks (stable builds for CentOS, Ubuntu LTS and Windows, support when needed), and I've got a list of four biggish projects that should be of interested to studios especially.

Please help by going through this proposal and suggesting ways of making this more attractive -- then I'll send it out to all the contacts I've gathered over the past year and see whether we can get something going!

(Note: I've sort of fixed a month of development work at 5000 euros. That's awfully cheap in a commercial setting, but it's sort of realistic for a non-profit like the Krita Foundation, I think.)

I'll also post this on the forum.

----------------------------------------------------
The Krita Foundation: the next steps

Krita has been developed at break-neck speed in 2014. We released Krita 2.8, with a host of new features, performance improvements and bug fixes. We made the first port to OSX available. We brought Krita to the Steam platform. We are on track to release the next version, 2.9, which will have among other things a greatly improved transform tool (cage, liquify, transform masks, perspective transform and more) and improved compatibility with Photoshop files.

However, developing Krita at this pace means we have to fund developers to work on Krita full-time. While there are many volunteers who dedicate their spare time to Krita development, with only volunteer contributions, development would be much slower.

Currently, the Krita Foundation earns about 500 euros a month through donations, sale of DVD's and the development fund. We made an additional 19,000 euros this year through the Kickstarter campaign. There are also some big one-time donations Krita on Steam makes about a 1000 euros a month right now, but for the moment, that money comes to KO GmbH, not the Krita Foundation.

In order to continue its work, the Krita Foundation needs about 10,000 euros a month. Given that Krita is already in wide-spread use, with plenty of opportunities for growing much larger, that should be doable.

I want to invite individual artist to join the Krita Development Fund: currently we get 100 euros a month through the development fund. Any amount, from five euros up makes a difference, because it makes for dependable income that we can plan with.

For companies, I want to create a new subscription model that will take the place of the Krita Studio license KO GmbH offered. It will still give access to Krita builds for CentOS 6.5 and Ubuntu LTS, as well as Windows, and support with bug fixes and installation help.

There are also four development project that I want to invite companies to subscribe to:

* LOD performance optimization: this will bring Krita's real time painting performance up to par with Photoshop, or even go beyond that. There is currently a proof-of-concept, but it needs at least four months of work, about 20,000 euros.

* Animation: make the animation plugin ready for the real world.

We have an initial investment from Eric Lake's project together with http://songoftheamazon.com/the-film/. We should consider doing a crowd-funding campaign to double their investment. This needs about 3-4 months of work, so 15,000 to 20,000 euros.

* OSX: the OSX port is experimental and needs work to be ready for end users:
* port remaining dependencies (HDR painting, optimizations)
* fix OpenGL
* fix popup palette (currently now shown when OpenGL is enabled)
* implement Wacom support to replace Qt's built-in tablet support.
* polish gui inconsistencies
* fix resource handling

This needs six months of dedicated development, so about 30,000 euros.

* Scripting: a proof of concept exists of Python scripting support for Krita. The goal is to enable both writing gui extensions for Krita as well as automate image manipulation actions.

This needs three months of development, about 15,000 euros.
ramskulls
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:21 pm
Good luck! Have you ever considered something like patreon? I'm sure it probably sounds strange, but a lot of people would probably be willing to chip in a dollar or two every month to help out, especially considering how awesome you guys have been.

edit: reading through your post that was pretty much exactly what you meant. I really need sleep orz
User avatar halla
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:01 pm
Yes, Patreon is on the radar. The problem with Patreon is that it, like all these things, takes quite a cut from the total, and in the end, it's no different from people subscribing to the Krita development fund and doing a monthly donation... I'm a Patreon myself for Deevad, and I'm doing the development fund thing for Synfig. Patreon does create more of a belonging-to sensation, I guess... So yes, it's not unlikely. If we setup a Patreon campaign, I will need help maintaining it, though!
slangkamp
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:44 pm
They take a 5% cut (+ transaction fees). There are advantages to Patreon though. It much easier to pledge a very small amout of money like 1$ as everything gets bundled over their service so there are less transaction fees (at least for non-Pay Pal). Patreon has a network effect like Kickstarter etc. where people are already subcribed to the site and it's just one more click to back someone else.
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:12 am
I think your business proposal is pretty good. I would personally add more of a philosophy element about why Krita is such a great cause. Krita, to me, is about helping artists and illustrators develop their skills without a financial burden. The people that are donating money to the Krita Foundation are not just adding more features for themselves. They are also helping thousands of young artists who haven't made it yet and need help.

Obviously it doesn't have to be exactly that, but you get the direction I am going. What separates Krita from other art applications is the whole "creative freedom" aspect. That is really Krita's shining light. Artists aren't at the mercy of a corporation's whim of adding or fixing features. Nobody is making millions of dollars off this application. It is the community coming together and creating a painting application that everyone can share and take part in.

I think what would help Krita the most (especially financially) is more exposure and visibility. This is a great tool that has been developing for years, but I still don't think most people know of its existence. I think spending more time researching other avenues could be very beneficial for the long-term health (news sites, magazines, books, user groups, etc).

I think whenever Krita 2.9 is a couple months away from being released, we really need to do a large media push. Not just about the new features, but explaining what Krita is, who it is for, and why it is needed. I know some of this isn't part of your immediate proposal, but I think it ties into the overall funding thoughts. If Krita had ten times the user base it does now, how would that change the game?
User avatar halla
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:59 pm
scottpetrovic wrote:I think your business proposal is pretty good. I would personally add more of a philosophy element about why Krita is such a great cause. Krita, to me, is about helping artists and illustrators develop their skills without a financial burden. The people that are donating money to the Krita Foundation are not just adding more features for themselves. They are also helping thousands of young artists who haven't made it yet and need help.


Good suggestion, I will do that before I send it out to my list of people interested in Krita.

scottpetrovic wrote:Obviously it doesn't have to be exactly that, but you get the direction I am going. What separates Krita from other art applications is the whole "creative freedom" aspect. That is really Krita's shining light. Artists aren't at the mercy of a corporation's whim of adding or fixing features. Nobody is making millions of dollars off this application. It is the community coming together and creating a painting application that everyone can share and take part in.


Indeed -- so how do I get companies to join in? To get them to take their bit of responsibility for Krita's continued development by helping with the funding?

scottpetrovic wrote:I think what would help Krita the most (especially financially) is more exposure and visibility. This is a great tool that has been developing for years, but I still don't think most people know of its existence. I think spending more time researching other avenues could be very beneficial for the long-term health (news sites, magazines, books, user groups, etc).


Could you help finding ways to get that sort of attention? During the kickstarter, it was nigh on impossible to get any magazine or news site interested in Krita, apart from the ones who already knew about us, like Blender Nation. We've got a wonderful application that most users really like, a very good community... But, as usual, next to no marketing :-)

Our website is good, siggraph was a good move (even though my follow-up could have been bettter), but we're still missing something here, and I wonder how we can improve.

scottpetrovic wrote:I think whenever Krita 2.9 is a couple months away from being released, we really need to do a large media push. Not just about the new features, but explaining what Krita is, who it is for, and why it is needed. I know some of this isn't part of your immediate proposal, but I think it ties into the overall funding thoughts. If Krita had ten times the user base it does now, how would that change the game?


Yes -- we're right now at that point. Krita 2.9 should be released in December (though it might become January, of course, depending on how much we need to stabilize...). That's why I posted these thoughts now, because of that timeline.
User avatar scottpetrovic
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:44 pm
for winning over companies --
You have to think like a company and help them out. Krita is a foundation correct? Can companies have tax write-offs when they choose Krita? How much money are they saving by using Krita as opposed to other software? Can companies have direct access to developers if they need new features or bug fixes? Supporting companies have much more control with changing the application to help "their" artists create artwork faster. They don't have to wait to see what 'X' company is going to do with their next version.

We can also use the website kind of like an advertisement as well. How many sites have you seen that include something like "Companies that use our product", then show a bunch of logos of companies. It helps Krita because artists see that people are using Krita. It helps the company's image because it shows they are charitable and increases their visibility by being on the site.



for helping spread the word about Krita --
Yes, I can try to help with media. I wasn't sure which sources you currently have tried communicating with. Media sources get tired of hearing about new kickstarter campaigns (they get a lot of them), so that might not be a good place to start a relationship with. The 2.9 release and features are a much better story in my mind.

I can do this, but want to make sure it is ok before I start going out.
1. Make a list of different places that I think would be interested in hearing about Krita
2. Send an email out informing them about the goal of Krita and what is going on with the 2.9 release, past kickstarter success
3. Ask if they would like to acquire a development build of the program and ask for feedback.

You have to realize with media that they can't just come up with an article on a whim. If someone were to be interested, they need time crafting an article - or spending even more time if they would want to feature it. I don't think we need to say things like "can you do a story?". If we are sending them a message, it is pretty obvious that we are trying to get the word out about Krita.

That is just the normal media. We also really need to get this in the hands of other artists like David Revoy. There needs to be 100s of Davids or Tysons that can give feedback and help Krita become the best it can be. Maybe they will have some negative feedback, but that will really help determine what Krita is missing.
Chris Jones
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:23 am
Some good suggestions there Scott.
scottpetrovic wrote:How many sites have you seen that include something like "Companies that use our product", then show a bunch of logos of companies.

Didn't I read something a year or two ago about Krita having been used by Digital Domain on one of the GI Joe movies? That kind of info should be more prominent. I think there might be a perception about Krita as being a tool for novices and hobbyists, so any mention of high profile use would help boost its credibility, and therefore attract more users. I know that kind of thing influences my decisions when I'm looking at new software.
boudewijn wrote:Could you help finding ways to get that sort of attention? During the kickstarter, it was nigh on impossible to get any magazine or news site interested in Krita, apart from the ones who already knew about us, like Blender Nation. We've got a wonderful application that most users really like, a very good community... But, as usual, next to no marketing :-)

I don't know how you'd go about attracting an article that focuses on it, but with any luck I might have just gained it a small mention in a couple of mags and news items, for what it's worth... ;)

(c:


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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:08 am
I think we should be posting on art forums that have alot of traffic, whether it be 2d or 3d doesn't matter. To name a few I visit...

- Deviant-art (does Krita have a group? It should!) (Preferred Art Site) (BIG)
- Cgsociety (Where all the pros are at, hands down.) (BIG)
- Polycount (LOTS of game texture artists, Kritas wraparound mode is a lifesaver for them) (BIG)
- C4dcafe (3D software for right brain thinkers, hence love Krita) (Currently using software) (BIG)
- Autodesk (...) (BIG)
- Sketchup (Again free very easy 3D soft with easy krita) (Currently using software) (BIG)
- 3Dcoat (These guys will love Krita for sure) (Currently using software)
- Depthcore
- Art Limited
- Concept Art (They will love the sketch brushes!) (BIG)
- Blender (probably done already) (BIG)
- Facebook (no-brainer) (BIG)
- http://www.digart.pl (different language, but really popular)
- Twitter (possibly?) (BIG)
- Sony PlayerStudio (site lets you submit items to be used in games and get paid) (BIG)
- Toon Boom (animation soft used on Simpsons, Family Guy, Disney) (BIG)
- Adobe (the dark place where I escaped...) (Currently using software, unfortunately) (BIG)
- Steam (app is there, but group? Lot of game artist and modders!) (Currently using software and games) (BIG)
- Lifehacker (maybe we can get an article, lotta views!)
- Youtube (obvious, maybe a trailer or promotional vid of what it's about) (BIG)
- For a few bucks you can promote messages to thousands of people or get tons of likes, not sure if it works honestly.
- Corel (BIG)
- Behance (Adobes art community)
- Luxology
- PencilJack
- Mention Krita to founder of CtrlPaint, he has a huge community thanks to his tutorials and he might give a review
- Wetcanvas (Huge, look at the online count) (BIG)
- Artist Daily
- Zbrush (Currently using software) (BIG)
- Windows 8 User (if it helps)
- Heck, what about Amazon or Ebay Forum? (BIG)
- Wacom and Huion (duh!) (BIG)

You can use similarsites.com to see if their are others, but I covered the biggies I believe. You would be very surprised what one post can do, let alone thread, really surprised.

The site could also use a little more sprucing up too, the home page needs dropdown menus or more links in the top header for less clicks and there's no sitemap, which alot of people use. The titles of the paragraphs such as "What is Krita?" should be black and easier to read, it also makes it look strong and assertive. "Get involved" sound kinda desperate, maybe "Join the community" or something different. I also think when you say "small" core team, hhmm, how long will they keep developing this, which brings me to my next idea, put the years of service Krita has on the main page and shove it in the viewers face. Artists need to know this is a stable and long standing software and community. The header should also stay in view I think, the best sites these days seem to be doing it. We also desperately need a video on the homepage showcasing Kritas capabilities, people need incentive to click a link let alone install software which takes time and bloats the computer, this video also needs to be on youtube for sure if we want a lot of views. Also, point out that Krita will run on windows, linux, AND eventually mac, because most developers can't say that. The font itself is friendly and inviting, which I think is what most artists like. Another point would be that Kiki should be smaller or somehow placed different, I don't think she belongs connected to the gallery, she is the mascot.

Speaking of Kiki, I'm not one too poke around on things that have been done for awhile, but I think we should at least improve her, I think there are more older men (18+) that will be using Krita then young kids and women though I might be wrong, perhaps a slightly anime character like Opencanvas would suit a broader audience, think David Revoys witch girl, symbolizing Krita as being magic and out of this world, I don't know where I'm goin' with this. (: I think a decision in a thread too and not just have one artist doing it, because he or she couldn't possibly make it the best it can be by themselves, they need guidance on what looks good. A slogan wouldn't be a bad idea either, "Software for Traditional and Digital Artists!" "Easy as can be, that's what you'll see". The top header covers the gallery too which is a little weird, but not bad. Overall color scheme is good, slightly feminine I won't lie but their nice complementary colors, I think blue is always the best "safe" color, really, who doesn't like it? Those are small pick points that don't make much difference though.

Anywho, seeing as Autodesk and Adobe are subscription based now, I could see people looking for alternatives like I was. Besides being free and awesome, we should be comparing our "painting" features with other software like painter, photoshop, artrage, you know. It would also be cool to have a pdf manual now that I think of it, not too complex, just for people who are new to painting or switching apps. Krita Sketch, or Gemini, tablet? I think that should be promoted more, I keep forgetting what that and studio is all the time, It needs to be on the main page I think. Wow I keep thinking things here, maybe make the forum a little more fun, have a lobby (talk about art idk), a painting challenge would be great fun, and maybe have a once a month discussion thread on where Krita is goin, what we could do better, do without, fix, etc. I really don't know I'm just throwin' some ideas for improvement, not necessarily ones that gain more people.

That's my two cents for now, sorry for the disorganization of ideas (like my bedroom), I'm no web designer mind you, but I do have a keen eye as an artist on what I think looks good. We all see how popular Blender is now and 3D artists only make up a third of the 2d community, so why can't Krita be just as, if not more popular? You also have to keep in mind their are 2d artists who also do 3d art, not just for texturing either, I'm one of them as a Cinema 4D and Zbrush user. It can be just as commonplace as blender, we just need to promote and spread the word more whilst looking professional. I can't even begin to say how HUGE animation in Krita will be, I've used Toon Boom for years and I never really liked it. Besides Toon Boom, nothing else is feasible in any normal pricerange. But, couple Kritas great interface, brush engine, with those tools and you have one powerhouse of a program and community for sure then. It really isn't rocket science, Krita is wonderful, people just aren't seeing it. Had it not been for one user and his mentioned post under a "free software" thread, I STILL would not have heard of Krita, so I wish I could thank him, truly. That being said, exhaustingly, I think the key word here is "out of sight, out of mind".

Since anime is so all the rage these days as a long fan myself at 21 years old, I think these general designs would be better than Kiki in my honest opinion. Furries (like Kiki), as they have been coined, are generally much more popular with younger kids. Keep in mind I'm not mocking the design whatsoever, if you like it great, it looks wonderful really, but not for this purpose and the audience. It also makes more sense for a human to be painting and looking cool really, if you want to take it that far subliminally, lol. (hey, if she looks that cool painting with this software, I can too!)

Mascot alternative examples...

David Revoy's design: http://www.davidrevoy.com/article234/potion-of-flight
Opencanvas: http://www.portalgraphics.net/en/oc/
This only touches the surface of course...

I was also going to ask, do you guys know the site's visitor count total and average a day, what about the SOE optimization? It will be interesting to see the difference if we do this. Krita was used in GI joe 2, I think this should be promoted, if only a little while. Wow, that was the largest post I've ever done, but as a huge fan of Krita, it was well worth it!! (:

Last edited by Razorvox on Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
feydk
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:17 am
@Razorvox

Posting in art forums would be definitively a thing to do! There is a lot of artists to touch there. :)
I'm not sure about posting in Adobe or Corel forum (and others), it's very agressive communication.

About the design/mascot :
When I heard about Krita, what interested me at the first glance was the great design/colors of the website and the mascot, much more modern, professional and convivial than many of other free software. So your concerns are a point of view! I find personaly the style of the mascot of Opencanvas a bit tasteless compared to Kiki... I love David Revoy witch, but I'm not sure changing mascot right now would be a good idea since the actual mascot after the last kickstarter campaign just starts to be indentified to Krita.

Better use our time to communicate about the present (and great) website and mascot instead of starting again new designs.
Communicate regularly in all these website require lot of time already :)

Last edited by feydk on Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar TheraHedwig
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:34 am
Yes indeed.

we already have a G+, Tumblr, Facebook, Twitter, Deviantart group, Polycount and Steam presence, but even within these few sites we have people who specialise in maintaining them. so what's mostly needed is spokespeople when it comes to that.
And just spreading the word.
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:43 pm
feydk: I had to look up the word "convivial ". Love it!

We need more effort and energy in the corporate arena. They generally have access to more resources and funds than a lot of artists do on forums. I think starting conversations and relationships with them is very important. Even if it is just showing them Krita and getting their feedback.
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:31 pm
I realize a lot of people like Kikis design, but I think you do have to consider the vast majority of people using Krita regardless. I also understand that the mascot has been established for awhile with the Kickstarter, but it's better to change it now than later, no question about that. Sometimes something that seems more generic and common such as a human mascot is a much, much safer bet and many more people are familiar with animes distinctive style. But, if we made a new one, I'm here to help create the designs. If you want, I could make some designs similar to those I posted in our color scheme. At the very least, I think Kikis eyes should be a little less feminine. I can also post some professional recommendations on those forums since I'm well estabilished on some, not in an advertising way mind you, just recommend others to try.
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:12 pm
Look, Razorvox, honestly the people we lose because Kiki is a squirrel would not be significantly less if she were human. Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but she IS in manga style.
The people we'd lose because we have Kiki as our mascot, we'd lose because we'd have a mascot at all. They'd prefer that all the splash screens and promotional material be generic abstract thingies that remind us of watching paint dry, because that's more ADULT.

In the meantime, one of the thing Kiki does really well is give a face to the Krita project. A really friendly face. Furthermore, it signals to users that actual artists are involved with the project, because DUH, how else would it end up with this well drawn mascot?

Look, it's not that I'm so attached to Kiki, but honestly, you're proposing to replace her with... the same thing, only human. Please understand I find this extremely silly.

Also, if you think Krita's userbase is 'more older men (18+) that will be using Krita then young kids and women', then you're sorely mistaken. And I am saying this on the basis of being involved in actually helpdesking Krita's userbase. Gender divide is equal overal, with places like tumblr and deviantart being higher in youths and girls, and places like google plus and CG forums being higher in men and older users. Furthermore, Krita's mission statement is 'Digital Painting for everyone', and I think we'd be doing pretty badly if we ignored that mission statement in our marketing.
User avatar Razorvox
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Re: 2015 funding thoughts

Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:14 pm
TheraHedwig wrote:Look, Razorvox, honestly the people we lose because Kiki is a squirrel would not be significantly less if she were human. Also, I don't know if you've noticed, but she IS in manga style.
The people we'd lose because we have Kiki as our mascot, we'd lose because we'd have a mascot at all. They'd prefer that all the splash screens and promotional material be generic abstract thingies that remind us of watching paint dry, because that's more ADULT.

In the meantime, one of the thing Kiki does really well is give a face to the Krita project. A really friendly face. Furthermore, it signals to users that actual artists are involved with the project, because DUH, how else would it end up with this well drawn mascot?

Look, it's not that I'm so attached to Kiki, but honestly, you're proposing to replace her with... the same thing, only human. Please understand I find this extremely silly.

Also, if you think Krita's userbase is 'more older men (18+) that will be using Krita then young kids and women', then you're sorely mistaken. And I am saying this on the basis of being involved in actually helpdesking Krita's userbase. Gender divide is equal overal, with places like tumblr and deviant-art being higher in youths and girls, and places like google plus and CG forums being higher in men and older users. Furthermore, Krita's mission statement is 'Digital Painting for everyone', and I think we'd be doing pretty badly if we ignored that mission statement in our marketing.


I don't know Thera, I'm just making suggestions and stating an opinion on the subject, I'm not saying it will bring in a larger userbase at all. Her design is more than manga, it's "girly" so to speak, that's what I'm trying to get across. But would you honestly want to change a design later? I think people that will buy Krita Studio will probably be over 18 I think, so that's another good point. Imagine if Autodesk or Adobe had Kiki as their image, would it change the userbase, no probably not, would it make it look unprofessional, well yeah and weird. I'm just saying the mascot should please a broader amount of people, that's just what I think as a fellow artist who has been around the block and used a lot of software, I have had friends on the forums that have mentioned the same, I don't think Krita should look like Kidpix. Sorry if I'm coming of as insulting, because I'm not, I just want to contribute and see what the "people" think. I cant do a lot to contribute other than the mascot seeing as the UI is nearly cleaned up, so I thought it was a good opportunity to say something. Also typing caps isn't exactly friendly on the internet in case you don't already know.

Does anybody have opinions on the web site related ideas? It seems I'm only seen as wanting to change Kiki, I'm not trying to create more work, just throwin ideas to see what you think for the "future" of Krita. Remember, you never get something right the first time, otherwise no one would fail and become better! (:

Last edited by Razorvox on Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:23 am, edited 3 times in total.

 
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