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Complex naming scheme Suspend to RAM/Suspend to Disk

User avatar Sudhir Khanger
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Hello,

Why has been simpler names like suspend/sleep and hibernate, which are universally popular and accept, replaced with complex and technical names like Suspend to RAM and Suspend to Disk? I am pretty technical and when I saw that I had to check what they meant.

How is Suspend to RAM and Suspend to Disk is more user friendly than Sleep/Suspend and Hibernate?

Thanks.
User avatar gregormi
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A good overview for those naming schemes gives this blog post https://looksblo.wordpress.com/2016/03/ ... end-modes/

I wonder where you find the more complex terms in Plasma because I don't see them. In the application menu I see two entries:

- Suspend
- Hibernate

which conform to the suggestions of the blog post.
User avatar Sudhir Khanger
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gregormi wrote:A good overview for those naming schemes gives this blog post https://looksblo.wordpress.com/2016/03/ ... end-modes/

I wonder where you find the more complex terms in Plasma because I don't see them. In the application menu I see two entries:

- Suspend
- Hibernate

which conform to the suggestions of the blog post.


I see them in KRunner. AppDash doesn't have search enabled for power options but it shows suspend and hibernate in the power options tab.

I also don't see power options in search result in AppDash, Kicker, and Kickoff anymore. Filed a bug report https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=362078

I found a bug report about the naming inconsistencies. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=352058
hein
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Sudhir Khanger wrote:How is Suspend to RAM and Suspend to Disk is more user friendly than Sleep/Suspend and Hibernate?


I find them more friendly because they tell me what they do. I never learned what "Hibernate" does ...


Plasma, apps hacker. KDE e.V. vice president.
ripper17
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Same here - I never got used to the terms "Sleep" and "Hibernate". "Sleep" where? On the disc, in the RAM? Non-technically, the computer is always sleeping (or hibernating).

"Suspend to RAM" vs "Suspend to Disc" for me is a far more accurate description. Of course, for non-technical people, these phrases hold no real meaning. But I'd say that neither does the concept of "Hibernate" vs. "Sleep".

"Hibernate" also has the problem that it is not an easy English word. "Sleep" is probably quite easy for most people with even just a little knowledge of English, but "Hibernate" is not. If the translation is incomplete or the user prefers the English version on his/her computer, "Hibernate" is a difficult word.

That said, the two concepts probably don't really make a whole lot of sense if not on a laptop. For newer systems, Suspend-To-Disk probably doesn't have big disadvantages with SSDs. Of course suspending to / waking from RAM will still be faster, but in favour of getting rid of the two confusing terms, I think it's worth thinking about maybe dropping one from the default actions (should of course be configurable to re-add the option).


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User avatar Sudhir Khanger
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We want to talk about consistency with rest of the technical world. We want to talk about habit and how we have been done thing previously. I feel like Suspend to RAM and Suspend to Disk are way too technical. They are so similar that a use might mistake one over other. If suspend and hibernate are not misleading and wrong then there is not a lot of benefit in changing them. If you are technical then you could have looked up what hibernate or suspend does. That has never been a problem.
ripper17
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Please don't ever assume what is a problem and what isn't. ;) This is especially true for non-native speakers (like me) and even more so for non-native AND non-tech-savvy people.

Just because everybody is doing something is not a valid argument on its own. It might be a good indicator, but it just as well might be that no-one really thought about it and everybody is just copying each other.

To me, "sleep" and "hibernate" don't make any sense.
Yes, hibernate indicates a "longer" sleep - but what does longer imply?
  • Is it impossible to have a suspended-to-RAM machine in that status for 6 months? I'm sure it is possible (as long as there's no power loss).
  • Does hibernate mean I have to sleep for a longer period of time? Certainly not, I can wake up from disk as soon as I want to.
  • Does hibernate mean slower wake-up times? It certainly used to be that way (with HDDs), I'm not so sure that there is that big of a difference anymore on modern PCs / Laptops
So, the sleep and hibernate metaphors don't really match. They're not completely broken, but the two sleep-states really only differ in power-availability: on a laptop, S2RAM might at some point lose its state, while S2Disk will not. On a desktop PC, this is not true. There really isn't a lot of benefit for hibernation on a desktop PC, IMHO. Then again, if you have SSDs, the difference between the two modes become less notable by users (I have no data at hand to support that claim, it just sounds reasonable).

I think there should be better names than "sleep" and "hibernate" - even if everybody else is using it. The "sleep" and "hibernate" names and metaphors have been irritating my for quite a while now on almost all systems.

Edit: Also, after re-reading the thread, I really agree with Hein: "Suspend to RAM" tells me what it does, while "Sleep" does not. I feel like "Sleep" is trying to dumb down users, without real benefit. Somebody familiar with the concept of RAM might already know that "Suspend to RAM" is not a good idea if (s)he is running very low on power on a notebook. "Sleep" is not giving that connotation.


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hein
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I'm generally more receptive to arguments from first principles. "This is a good name because others are using it" doesn't actually tell you it's a good name, because it's not an argument from first principles.


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User avatar google01103
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I'd actually like to see "Suspend to RAM (requires power)" and "Suspend to Disk (no power required)" because I'm not convinced people actually know how suspend/sleep and hibernate work/differ


OpenSuse Leap 42.1 x64, Plasma 5.x

User avatar gregormi
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google01103 wrote:I'd actually like to see "Suspend to RAM (requires power)" and "Suspend to Disk (no power required)" because I'm not convinced people actually know how suspend/sleep and hibernate work/differ


I like this idea. Alternative texts: "Suspend to RAM - requires little energy" and "Suspend to Disk - no energy consumption" (replace "power" with "energy" as the latter is used in similar contexts like the "Energy consumption" tab in KInfoCenter).

 
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