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New Document dialog redesign

User avatar boudewijn
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:37 pm
Ha, yes, I like that.
User avatar Deevad
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:06 pm
@Scott : cool mockup in the PDF. I like it. A little input ; can 'resolution' also be a drop down/combobox with presets ?
Code: Select all
[  72 ppi ,  old monitor ppi ]
[  96 ppi ,  newer monitor ppi ]
[ 150ppi,  low print ppi ]
[ 300ppi,  standard print ppi (recommended) ]
[ 450ppi,  hi-res print ppi ]
[ 600ppi,  hi-res print ppi ]
[ 1200ppi,  hi-res print ppi ]
[ 2400ppi, hi-res print ppi ]


User avatar scottpetrovic
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:42 am
@deevad: That is a good idea. I didn't think about it, but I imagine some people don't know the common pixel density purposes. The only potential downfall is if someone is wanting a custom PPI. In reality, I don't know what use case would warrant that, so I am ok with leaving the options as preset. The description by each is nice to explain the use as well.

I have compiled all of the changes and updated the PDF. I gave up a while ago with trying to embed stuff on this KDE forum, so I will usually just give external PDF links. Hope that is OK. :)
http://www.scottpetrovic.com/uploads/kr ... ate-v2.pdf

I like the direction it is going. With removing a lot of the areas to their own menu options, it is dramatically simpliying the new document menu.

Is there anything else that seems out of place, not correct, or needs changing?
User avatar boudewijn
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:54 am
The templates -- do we show them in a list, or as a grid of icons?
User avatar kamathraghavendra
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:08 am
@ scott: I have one doubt, what is the difference between open existing and normal file open. I think both do the same thing. If they are same we can remove the From existing document entry from the menu.

Keeping the resolution as a drop down is a good idea for quick document creation, We can change the resolution later from image size menu too. And for some people who always start with custom document (e.g 200 ) there should be a option to add custom resolution to that list, is that some how possible.


User avatar mmolch
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:03 pm
@scott: The mockups look amazing! But as I understood the presets only save the size and resolution but it now suggests that it saves everything including colors and content in the mockup. Maybe the general idea to have separate sections for size/resolution, color and some basic setup wasn't that bad from the beginning...
Would it be feasible to add a button to the right of the preset selection to edit the preset like it is done in the tag selection of the brush presets? That could open a popup with the ability to save it under a specific name, overwrite the current preset and delete it (if it's custom)....

@boud: Maybe the template window should offer the possibility to toogle between a preview grid and a more detailed list with a small button in the upper right corner.

@kamathraghavendra: I actually agree, but the option with the "new from existing document" exists at the moment in the file menu so I guess that it might have its purpose in life.

I looked through the other applications in the calligra suite yesterday evening and I think that I now understand some of the UI issues. The current new document window is based on the startup screen that is used by the other calliga apps. Krita however already has a combined splash/startup screen showing e.g. the recent files. That leads to some strange redundancy.
User avatar mmolch
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:13 pm
Another small addition: if you set the size manually to e.g. a 2048x2048 100 ppi, it should automatically select the corresponding preset ("Texture 2048x2048" in this case)
User avatar scottpetrovic
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:06 am
Made some updates based off the feedback.

V3
http://www.scottpetrovic.com/uploads/kr ... ate-v3.pdf


@mmolch: I actually didn't realize that the predefined sizes only included the dimensions and ppi. I grouped those together. Creating a group box adds a lot of visual noise to the dialog, so I opted to move all of the buttons on the right side. I don't know if we need an explicit "edit" area for this. If someone wants to update an predefined image setting, they can just save over the existing one. I haven't heard of people requesting to delete these, so that tells me that it is not common enough to worry about for now.

Two concerns I have seen with this area is that people thought 1. it was getting too long (people with smaller monitors) and 2. there was too much to think about just to get started. I am trying to keep those two concerns in mind with these updates.

@boud: the thumbnails for the templates is actually a great idea to just do. The hardest thing with templates now is that you do not know what they look like when starting off. You have to open each one to figure out what they actually do. I would be in favor of just making the template area thumbnails

@kamathraghavendra, @mmolch: For the "open existing as new". I personally think that should be a setting in the open dialog. It seems more like a setting for "opening" something then "creating" something. What makes it confusing is that it mixes the words open and new. They are somewhat conflicting ideas.

If we do the custom PPI, the best way would probably be to have a "custom" option in the drop down. If that is selected, a new textfield would appear to the left and allow someone to type a number in.
User avatar mmolch
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:08 pm
Hm, interesting. This is what I came up with.
Image
It's actually close to the original design with some ideas taken from you all. Imagine some icons / the color chooser button in place of the "..." the boxes. The idea for the presets is to show a plus sign with a small down arrow when there is no preset associated with the current dimensions and a menu icon with a small down arrow otherwise. That then opens popups under the button depending on the situation as described before.
User avatar scottpetrovic
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:44 pm
mmolch: Nice mockup. I think we can just roll with what we have now . We are starting to get more to the tweaking stage. The larger decisions seem like they are pretty agreed upon (what to move out of the dialog, what to remove, condensing).

I am not sure how much the Qt5 port will affect layout things. I guess we can branch off master and keep the changes in a branch until after 3.0 gets out (unless Boud wants to do otherwise of course). We can merge the changes back in.
User avatar scottpetrovic
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:08 pm
Just a follow-up. We are going to try to roll these changes into a 2.9 update. Talking with Boud, it sounds like Krita 2.9 is going to be with us for a while. I will be creating a branch off "calligra/2.9" and starting to do work in it. Anyone interested in helping make these changes is more than welcome.
mvowada
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:15 pm
I like the first mockup proposed by kamathraghavendra for its clearness:
Image

I've checked the new branch, personally I find that the new "New" dialog is narrow. For what I see it's not possible to automatically extend its width by simply resizing the window, and I think it makes it difficult to read the items set from the dropdown lists.

5. Name - A label that will get populated if using a tabs display. It does not seem to be used in file saving though. This makes it a bit difficult to know if a file has been saved if you add a name label.

Imho it "must" be used when saving a file. And since the name is showed in the document bar then an asterisk "*" at the end of the name, could mark the unsaved documents.

6. Portrait/Landscape buttons - Its main purpose seems to switch the width and the height. The icons are quite small, so it can be difficult to tell what you have selected.

I'd let these options. My feeling is that, generally speaking, the chance to quickly switch between options and settings lets you to change your mind easily, in this case without worrying too much of the exact sizes.

7. Description - As noted by mmolch, this seems to have no impact on the document.

If it's a metadata entry I think it would be a clever way to store informations about the document. I would use it.
User avatar scottpetrovic
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:18 pm
@mvowada: It would be good pointing out why this thread came up to begin with. There have been quite a few reports of the new dialog having too much stuff in it. It is causing the Create and Cancel buttons to be hidden. There have also been some concerns that there are too many decisions that need to be made when trying to start a new document. That is the goal of this. This UI also use to show before the application canvas began, so its role has changed now that you have to go to File > New to start it.

Please don't luse the branch with feedback right now. It was just created, so is just going to create confusion if you refer to that. All of the mockups that exist are the direction that we are going.


5. The 'name' field is simply a placeholder for unsaved files. It has no value to actually name (unless you know something that I don't). When you save a document, the name is updated with the saved file name. it doesn't seem important enough to have people use that (most programs don't have this either)

6. Portrait/landscape - we are updating this functionality. Instead of the small icons, we are making a "switch" icon so you can quickly switch between whatever you have.

7. Description - most people (even here) don't really use this or have any purposes for it. What we are doing is just hiding the field for now. If someone cries out that they need i with "x program", we can always revisit.


On a side note - the progress on this right now is going to be rather slow, since we are focusing on the next Kickstarter. This project will probably see more traction once the kickstarter is over.
mvowada
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:11 am
@mvowada: It would be good pointing out why this thread came up to begin with.

Thank you, but I assure you I had understood the reasons of this thread.
I'm used to read before writing and what I did has been to read the previous comments and write down my opinions.

There have been quite a few reports of the new dialog having too much stuff in it.

Could you share with us some of the links? I think that it would be worthwhile if we could talk by knowing the details of the objections.
I did a search in Bugzilla and it seems to me that there are not so many that complain for an excessive amount of options in the dialog window. In fact, for what I've read, no one is.

What emerges from some of the bug reports instead, is that the current dialog window is a bit larger than the smallest screens, e.g. Bug 322253 http://tiny.cc/4mfswx . That would be different: http://tiny.cc/7lfswx .

Please don't luse the branch with feedback right now. It was just created, so is just going to create confusion if you refer to that.

As for the developing branch I agree with you. Actually I think that my remarks apply even without the need to bring the developing branch into play, and I truly mind if I sounded misleading and distracting.
User avatar scottpetrovic
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Re: New Document dialog redesign

Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:40 pm
@mvowada: Where are the links?
When this thread was created, there was some conversation going on in IRC. It is one of the reasons that I suggested we move this topic to the forum where people could start looking it over in a central area. It isn't the first time is has been brought up. It is easy to get lost in separate conversations. Keep in mind I did not start this thread. I would like to think of these things as a group effort of more than one person. We all want to make Krita better. Most of us our volunteers.

This thread is generating quite a few views, so there must be something appealing with this topic.

There are a few aspects to this thread. You seem to be concerned with a few fields in the updated new dialog area (sorry for sounding repetitive)
1. Name field
2. Portrait/Landscape button
3. Description field

For point 1
This is how it work on my Windows machine now. Currently in Krita when you create a document, you are given a "name" textfield. The name appears in the tab when the document is created. There is no asterisk. When you want to save the file, you are presented with a save dialog. The name in the tab is not used as the file name. Only a blank textfield is shown.

The current proposed solution is that the name field is not very meaningful since it isn't related to the file name. Do you have a different solution in mind?

For point 2
The proposed solution now is to change the portrait and landscape buttons to a 'switch' button. It was brought up that the icons are hard to see since they are small (maybe IRC, maybe forum/bugzilla - not sure). The switch button would still have the functionality, but be easier to see from an icon standpoint.

Do you have a different solution?

For point 3
So far in the thread, people have been having a hard time explaining when they use this, or why they would use this. Other applications such as Photoshop, Painter, and Manga Studio do not have this - so it doesn't appear to be for compatibility reasons. If you have some information on how you use this, it would be nice to know about. It might have a use case we aren't aware of.

 
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