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The Good, Bad, and Ugly, feedback

User avatar scjet
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The Good, Bad, and Ugly, feedback

Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:59 pm
neon-useredition-20171116-1018-amd64 (with latest, as of yesterday, updates).

Good:
- kdenlive: is amazing right now. Encoding/rendering with all 6-cores at 100%, ..., keep up the great work.
- most gtk2/3 apps that I use worked fine, and the couple that didn't I found good qt4/5 alternatives.
- qbittoreent: this was the only decent torrent/magnet app that worked flawlessly.
- most other "k" apps, that i use also work fine as well, EXCEPT for the below.

Bad:
- ktorrent: it's still a disaster, tl;td
- Qtransmission (transmission-qt) : same as ktorrent.
- Grub/efi installation quirk : Dual-booting with Ubuntu/Mint and grub, via efi, doesn't show the Neon grub menu.
(the dirty-fix was simply to cp /boot/efi/EFI/neon/* /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu/ , then after successfully booting into Neon grub menu, ran update-grub.)
- k3b: with the same glaring missing dependencies as usual. wodim, kde-config-cddb.
- kdewallet: wifi woes, more of an annoyance than Bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWujE2hBgo8

Ugly:
- Discover Software Manager: this thing almost fried my cpu, and drive, had I not pwr-reset my Desktop ???!!!, -it's completely broken, and dangerous to use, please fix it, or get rid of it.

I spent a lot of time with this Kde Neon edition, and I understand that Neon (User Edition (and not LTS)), is mostly for User's to test the latest kde apps, ..., which is why I focused on the common issues surrounding a few, and NOT any gtk2/3 apps.
The "Bad", and the "Ugly" as mentioned above have been lurking on KDE Neon for around a couple years now?, give-or-take, and yes, -there are many, many other similar issue/posts verifying this.
Why haven't these issues been fixed yet.

So, hopefully, kde devs, ..., will try to deal with these glaring few issues. It's more up to them, rather than the User, to continually post bugs with Ubuntu/Canonical, if need be.
Users provide valuable feedback for dev's,..., need I say more ?

Except for "Discover", the other "k" apps mentioned here, could be more easily fixed/patched?

Anyway, thanks all for KDE Neon. :)

Last edited by scjet on Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar scjet
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I updated above post, re: kdewallet.
User avatar dequire
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I ran into your issue with k3b as well. Would be curious to see if the issue is present in Kubuntu 16.04.3 as well.
tosky
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scjet wrote: - ktorrent: it's still a disaster, tl;td



Can you please expand? Ktorrent has a new maintainer, so explaining the issues and filing bugs can be useful.


tosky, proud to be a member of KDE forums since 2008-Oct.
raddison
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Re: The Good, Bad, and Ugly, feedback

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:24 am
dequire wrote:I ran into your issue with k3b as well. Would be curious to see if the issue is present in Kubuntu 16.04.3 as well.


With or without the backport ppa, the answer is no.

But I would love a working Muon as part of the 5.8.8 backport. The one that's in Xenial is broken.

Edit:
With or without the backport ppa, the answer is no.


Just for the sake of clarity, no, Kubuntu 16.04.3 does not have the aforementioned issue in conjunction with K3B. It's the old Xenial version but it works okay.

Last edited by raddison on Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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raddison
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Re: The Good, Bad, and Ugly, feedback

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:45 am
History on this forum is cyclical. There are no new subjects, just new users. After a full year with Neon (and Kubuntu), you will likely have no more questions to ask.

Last edited by raddison on Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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User avatar apachelogger
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scjet wrote:So, hopefully, kde devs, ..., will try to deal with these glaring few issues.


The forums are not a means to report issues, they are also not frequented by the majority of devs.

https://bugs.kde.org/ is the place to be.


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kenj69
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apachelogger wrote:
scjet wrote:So, hopefully, kde devs, ..., will try to deal with these glaring few issues.


The forums are not a means to report issues, they are also not frequented by the majority of devs.

https://bugs.kde.org/ is the place to be.


First of all I want to thank you for looking into this forum and posting a reply with your advice. The problem with your advice is that the bug reporting system is not designed for end users. It is a very unfriendly place with strange terminology and an unintuitive interface. And this is coming from an aging geek who used to be an IT manager. I used the bug reporting link within Kdenlive and found I had to register to yet another facility with username and password. That wasn't so bad I guess but then I was confronted with terminology that even I was unfamiliar with and wondered what to do next. I left some text describing the problem and then tried to post a photo. It was rejected because it was larger than 80 x 80 pixels (IIRC)! Then, I decided to create a 30 second video to show the exact problem with steps to create and post it on my Google Drive. I tried posting the url at least four times and each time got an unintelligible error message highlighted with a very obvious red banner. There was no indication to me what was wrong or how to fix it.

A bug reporting system is for developers not end users. End users report their problems here and if the problem is resolved by the community then it is reported as [solved] or something similar. Anything not resolved needs to be escalated to the bug reporting system by a dev or mod. If you don't want to do it that way then make the bug reporting system useable by end users - please! But this forum has mainly been "crickets" in my experience. I posted my struggles with resolving my problem and four days (FOUR DAYS) later a moderator dropped by to post a short comment. This is not very helpful. Like others who foray into the Linux community I try to resolve problems on my own but the KDE community must be large - and an inquiring mind wants to know why there is so little interaction.

Feedback is important. You need to know these things. Don't blow me off as a complainer. I've run Helpdesks and know of what I speak. Just trying to be a helpful community member here. -=Ken=-


Kdenlive 17.12.0, Linux Mint 17.3 w/Cinnamon, Gigabyte MB with AMD A8-7600 Radeon R7 APU and 8 GB RAM
tosky
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I partially disagree on the assessment on the bug tracking system. We can definitely improve it.
Yes, bugs.kde.org has a different login system. This is a known problem but it will have to wait until identity.kde.org gets a complete overhaul. We are short on sysadmins...

I strongly advise you to try to report again the issue on bugs.kde.org.
I've seen user attaching images; I think that the limit is a size limit, not a limit on the dimension of the image (the text says "(File size limit: 4000 KB)").

The forum for sure is not a proper way to have a user-developer interaction regarding issues.


tosky, proud to be a member of KDE forums since 2008-Oct.
airdrik
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imo, the forums can certainly be the first line for people looking to solve their problem with the hope that there is something they can do now without having to wait for a code fix. A lot of troubles that users have can be sorted out and solved without needing to make code changes. Submitting to the forums first reduces the amount of cases in bugs.kde.org which could have been solved by simple configuration changes the user can make (with resolutions like "not a bug" or "no change required" because no code changes were needed).
Cases which require code changes or more technical expertise to fix should be reported by the user experiencing them in bugs.kde.org (which may be the user who created the forum thread or may be someone else who is able to reproduce the issue and provide additional details). If you know that a bug that requires fixing in the code, you should skip the forums and go straight to BKO to file it, unless you feel the need to discuss the issue with other users before doing so. Yes bug tracking systems are used by developers to keep track of bugs needing to be fixed, but most KDE developers don't browse the forums so if users don't create the reports in BKO they won't get fixed (and the difference between a new user and a "veteran" user is only in how much experience they have).

In short, both the forums and BKO are for users to enter their grievances. I'd rather see bugs reported here first where they can be triaged and resolved if possible or moved to BKO if necessary.


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Clancularius
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apachelogger wrote:
scjet wrote:So, hopefully, kde devs, ..., will try to deal with these glaring few issues.


The forums are not a means to report issues, they are also not frequented by the majority of devs.

https://bugs.kde.org/ is the place to be.


The bugs site is truly awful though. Say I have a fresh problem with Akregator which I want to report. I click "New" it comes up with an insanely long list of stuff that seems to include everything that has been created ever for KDE whether it's in use or not, I click Akregator and am then presented with seven component categories in a mandatory field to choose to file this in. These fields are meaningless to most people, yet a pre-requisite for reporting a problem.

Forums are easier for people to enter information into. If it's not a bug, then people can be advised, if it is a bug then devs can organise their own workflow however they choose. When someone comes on a KDE forum and points out a problem, it's a bit rude to say "Don't tell me here, tell me on this other site".
raddison
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Hi guys,

I agree to what kenj69 and Clancularius have written above.

I also understand Harald's perspective.

My experience with the bug reporting system is definitely not very good. I'm not a dev just a user so that might play a part in it.

I can't shake the feeling that my bug reports made little if any difference. Might be wrong but that's my perception. Just an example: if there's an option in the installer to tick on autologin and there is, then it should serve a purpose. Sure reported it way back. It still won't stick and I hardly expect it ever will.

As for popular demands, those are just a slogans, I reckon. A decision is made and then it is heralded as the will of the crowd. That's partly good 'cause the crowd oftentimes makes poor decisions, or so I think.

All that said, Neon is still the OS I always come back to, simply because couldn't find anything more suitable to my expectations. (Kubuntu 16.04.3 is also quite good; actually, I've built an iso that already includes the 5.8.8 backport, for saving time during fresh installs, of course)

Also, Neon (as a project or vision of making things) is relatively young so, all in all, some shortcomings were to be expected.

I have high hopes for 5.12. I think it will mature more rapidly than 5.8 has. That's my assumption.

New features are always welcome but there's a time-frame of patience within which bugs should be squashed. I think 5.12 will reach maturity by fall 2018.

There are as many as 4 branches. User, User LTS, Git Stable, Git Unstable.

If User and User LTS are targeting the everyday user, then those should be virtually bug-free at any given moment in time.

It should be noted that I ceased to criticize. I'm just stating my humble opinion. I think the core-devs are doing their best and their work is undoubtedly worthy of praise and admiration.

I don't see anything wrong with the forum. It's a place where users help each other out. I noticed some people, including myself, dropping in without much previous homework done though. Which would be preferable to avoid.

As imperfect as it is, bugs belong here https://bugs.kde.org/ though. It's our best shot. And of course, a bad bug report is worse than no report. Reproaching things will never serve any purpose.

Accentuate the positive. Words like "awful", which sometimes describe my feelings too, should be avoided as those won't serve any purpose either, other than blowing off some steam. :)


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