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Why isn't NEON based on OpenSUSE?

User avatar AveryFreeman
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Why isn't NEON based on OpenSUSE?

Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:25 pm
Hello,

I'm just curious why NEON isn't based on OpenSUSE, given that KDE is its default DE and it is a larger, older distro (?) It also has 'LTS' builds (each version point is supported for 3 years vs 5 for ubuntu LTS)

I would imagine SUSE devs would work more closely with KDE devs given that KDE is SUSE's default DE? Has anyone on the NEON team considered this?

They also have a large amount of financial backing for their products.

Would love to know the reasons why this is not the case. Just a curiosity, not trying to start any contentious arguments.

Thanks!
-Avery
gfielding
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Re: Why isn't NEON based on OpenSUSE?

Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:30 pm
I would guess as ubuntu uses apt rather than rpm. Apt is much more popular than rpm - although personally after using opensuse for years with yast I find apt, debs and discover hard work. I run both kde neon and opensuse tumbleweed - for me I like kde neon as it updates plasma packages ultra quick and I do like the mininal install of packages. That said, some of the packages with kde neon/ubuntu are so old - for example vlc 2.2!
mackay
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Re: Why isn't NEON based on OpenSUSE?

Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:23 am
I can't answer for the Neon team, but I find for my computers that Ubuntu derivatives come with non-free drivers available that make things work right away, whereas my experience with openSUSE a couple years ago was that anything non-free requires extra steps to make work. This includes wifi and for my computer, sound. Not everyone has the skills to deal with that.

Another possible factor besides Ubuntu working out of the box better for more people, is that I read some of the developers came from Kubuntu.
gfielding
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Re: Why isn't NEON based on OpenSUSE?

Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:34 pm
Good point mackay.
User avatar claydoh
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Basically the creators/developers are more intimately familiar with the Ubuntu/Debian infrastructure.
I'll also wager that it is likely far easier to set up and maintain this non-distro. i.e. how many Suse derivatives are there vs Ubuntu or even Debian ones?


claydoh, proud to be a member of KDE forums since 2008-Oct, and KDE user since 2001
User avatar AveryFreeman
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Re: Why isn't NEON based on OpenSUSE?

Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:52 pm
Thanks for your answers! They all seem like relevant points. I'll add one more I got from Reddit's KDE thread:

Hardware compatibility. Apparently drivers are released more quickly for Ubuntu (especially Nvidia), and Ubuntu has a 'Hardware Enablement Stack" or 'HWE' - which has a kernel that moves while the userland software doesn't (google HWE kernel).

didn't realize any of that stuff when I asked the question. I do have to admit the Leap kernel doesn't move (It's like CentOS/RH, but not as bad - it gets patched with backports for 3 years - for instance, Leap 42.3 is on 4.4 while RH is on 3.16l). It seems like any dev team making a 'non-distro' could just slap on the Tumbleweed rolling kernel through a repository though.

Oh well, I'm an OpenSUSE user so I was hoping there might be some give there, but at least now I know! I was able to install 5.12 on Leap 42.3 using an add-on repository, so I'm not sweating it. It works great. Maybe someday Ubuntu will take automatic snapshots you can boot from GRUB like OpenSUSE :P ... Until then I'm sticking where I am ;)
User avatar vinnywright
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AveryFreeman wrote:Thanks for your answers! They all seem like relevant points. I'll add one more I got from Reddit's KDE thread:

Hardware compatibility. Apparently drivers are released more quickly for Ubuntu (especially Nvidia), and Ubuntu has a 'Hardware Enablement Stack" or 'HWE' - which has a kernel that moves while the userland software doesn't (google HWE kernel).

didn't realize any of that stuff when I asked the question. I do have to admit the Leap kernel doesn't move (It's like CentOS/RH, but not as bad - it gets patched with backports for 3 years - for instance, Leap 42.3 is on 4.4 while RH is on 3.16l). It seems like any dev team making a 'non-distro' could just slap on the Tumbleweed rolling kernel through a repository though.

Oh well, I'm an OpenSUSE user so I was hoping there might be some give there, but at least now I know! I was able to install 5.12 on Leap 42.3 using an add-on repository, so I'm not sweating it. It works great. Maybe someday Ubuntu will take automatic snapshots you can boot from GRUB like OpenSUSE :P ... Until then I'm sticking where I am ;)


with the HWE we are on a 4.13.0-36 kernel patched for meltdown/spectre .

what do you mean with "snapshots" ,,,,,,are you on a BTRFS file system ? if thats what you are talking about , you can have that hear ,,their is a tool , but I prefer to do it my self .

VINNY
ccarlo
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openSUSE offers a fantastic Kde experience, it did not make sense to create another based on suse, while Kubuntu always had problems with Kde. So the choice makes sense ... but I still prefer openSUSE as it is a complete distribution, it is possible to have updated applications and a whole other world. Of course I also love Kde Neon that I installed on the notebook.
User avatar vinnywright
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ccarlo wrote: while Kubuntu always had problems with Kde. .
and what problems would that be ,,,I never had any that were not fixable , in fact none that even come to mind .

VINNY
User avatar abury
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ccarlo wrote:... while Kubuntu always had problems with Kde.

Also not so sure what you are referring to... as such
I echo @vinnywright comment re "problems"
My problem issue with Kubuntu--and the reason for moving to Neon--was simply its' bloatware
The fresh installation-real-estate-size of Neon was most appealing!


Kubuntu 19.10 - Plasma 5.18.3 - Frameworks 5.67.0 - Qt 5.12.4 - Kernel 5.3.0-51

 
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