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New distribution required?

schabe68
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New distribution required?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:00 pm
Hi Folks,

I am a KDE user since many years and I can say: KDE is mandatory for me!
I am Debian derivate user since many years and I can say: Debian is mandatory for me!

I had some contacts at the beginning of my linux activities with Suse Linux and felt really bossed around by yast and the CD based installation. So I decided to use Debian and got happy with it. After some time I came to a point where I had to recognize that Debian (stable) was not acceptable for a desktop computer. I played around with testing and unstable and I never had a stable system. In these days video codecs and performancwe of video playback was the focus for me. I gave kubuntu (KDE 3) a try and felt happy with it. Everything needed was there and mostly working. This was around 2007. Then the KDE4 phase started and it was really hard to stay at KDE. But I did and since KDE 4.6 things became better.

In the last months I recognized that some things still do not work very well. Now I recognized that Ubuntu went on a new way and a lot of issues are not related to KDE. When kDE needs to see a library in version 2 to provide a feature and ubuntu stucks on version 1 of this library or it gives the favor to another service this has to lead to broken or missing features inside KDE. I see things like CD playback (which is today of minor interest) or UPNP support (which is my current interest) that is availavle since 3 years but is still not working in kubuntu. Firefox integration is another point. Also very painful: The pulseaudio story...

So what I am really missing is a Debian/Ubuntu based KDE distribution where the libraries are driven by KDE needs and not by gnome (or unity) or the interest of a company like Canonical. It seems to me that the only distribution with a perfect KDE support is Open Suse right now, perhaps mageia (again rpm based). But the Debian package system, aptitude, debian configuration and the fact that there are a lot of repositries providing debian packages make it very hard for me to switch to Open Suse.

This leads to my questions: Is there a new distribution needed for a Debian based KDE which can provide a perfectly working KDE experience? What would it mean to exchange all packages from Ubuntu that do not work perfectly with KDE and provide them in a separate repository? Has KDE a future within Debian universe? Will KDE end up in insignificancy and these are the indications? Or do we just see that most disributions are controlled by US companies and these think gnome and not KDE?


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User avatar Mamarok
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Re: New distribution required?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:12 pm
I strongly suggest you start by upgrading to Kubuntu 13.10, your version is quite outdated, and there have been a lot of improvements since.

And no, there is no need for a new distribution, there are already way too many out there splitting up human resources that would be much more useful if they would concentrate on helping making the existing ones better. Adding a new distribution is just total nonsense, it will not solve the problems that are mainly due to lack of manpower.


Mamarok, hanging out in the Amarok forum since August, 2007
Currently running Kubuntu 19.10 beta, Plasma 5.16.5, Frameworks 5.62.0, Qt 5.12.4, kernel 5.3.0-17
User avatar toad
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Re: New distribution required?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:32 pm
LinuxMint oder LMDE might work for you. But if you are after performance and know what you are doing (and don't mind tinkering every now and then) Arch is the way to go.


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schabe68
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Re: New distribution required?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:59 pm
I actually[*] do not want to start with a new distribution. But for me it hurts a lot that kubuntu is still not ready to be used as desktop for today needs. When I was investigating the UPNP issue with kubuntu I found the following post:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/975327

So it seems that upnp still not works out of the box for Kubuntu 13.10 and it seems to be unsure if this will change really for 14.04. I found similar posts for MTP support which is mandatory for android devics since more than 3 years and which is not working in 12.10. Originally I wanted to stay at 12.04 (LTS) but there have been to many painful issues. So I switched to 12.10 which was more or less a bug fix release. I am mostly happy with the overall desktop experience but even there are still a lot of minor issues.

I really do not want to start up with a new distribution but perhaps it would make sense to get rid of canonical somehow. This is the basic idea behind this post. I also see that there are too many distributions out there. But I also see, that a Desktop has a lot of needs regarding the shipped libraries and as long as all Debian derivates are shipped with other desktops KDE will never run as good as it could. Today Debian itself makes a very good job but KDE is always too old in it and lacks of features.

Is mint better prepared for KDE? The default desktop is also gnome based.


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Re: New distribution required?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:05 pm
schabe68 wrote:Is mint better prepared for KDE? The default desktop is also gnome based.


LinuxMint does have a KDE version while LMDE does not. What what is to stop you installing any number of desktop environments?


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schabe68
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Re: New distribution required?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:37 pm
My family. I want them not to use Windows for known reasons. So they expect a stable system from me which supports the latest technologies. Not that they ask for the technology but for the functionality. The PC just has to run.


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Re: New distribution required?

Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:06 pm
Well, 13.10 is a stable release and it runs, so your argument is a tad strange...


Mamarok, hanging out in the Amarok forum since August, 2007
Currently running Kubuntu 19.10 beta, Plasma 5.16.5, Frameworks 5.62.0, Qt 5.12.4, kernel 5.3.0-17
trescryptique
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Re: New distribution required?

Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:00 am
Hi

Concerning MY PC (Dell OPTIPLEX SX280 with Pentium with ab. 1,7 GB RAM and 500 GB Harddisk), I can confirm. All, what I am using, works (restriction: French news http://www.francetvinfo.fr/replay-jt/fr ... 91072.html only in Seamonkey >:D . Konqueror does not find the plugin, rekonq find some one but does not start the video...). The only one problem is that KDE itself (not the KDE app's) is extremly slow but there is a solution: I use JWM (the look and feeling is about the same :D but it is very fast! ) and has JWM since this version of Kubuntu is correctly connected to Kubuntu (the minimal JWM menu comes fully prepared with 2 fulfilled subdivisions: KDE-App's and Debian-App's and those submenus become self actualized by Kubuntu after installation or removing of applications) this is real luxurious! I did introduce an own screen background using «xli» and have now a beautiful and reactive WM instead of a "trottinette" (French word for very slow locomotions instrument)

But on my wife's PC (Dell OPTIPLEX SX270 with Pentium with ab. 0,7 GB RAM and 80 GB Harddisk) not. There are divers errors. Her Digital Monitor (I have also a Digital Monitor but a bit older) is not properly recognized, and as I did install Kubuntu 13/10 after long testing on my own PC, the installation is different and not so good. She has to use my PC for some purposes (view videos at differed time etc.).

Kind regards and good new year!

PJ: probably I would have avoid the problem of my wife if I would have known a way to port exactly my Kubuntu mixture but under setting up for her hardware on her PC but I don't no a procedure "clone your actual KDE System on an other PC through net install" ;) !
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Re: New distribution required?

Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:22 pm
Well, the PCs are different, and you can't just clone an installation, as they have different CPUs and probably different graphic cards and need different drivers. Cloning is only meant to be used when the hardware is exactly the same, like in a corporate setup.

Without exact details about the graphic card there is not really much we can help, care to be more detailed about that?


Mamarok, hanging out in the Amarok forum since August, 2007
Currently running Kubuntu 19.10 beta, Plasma 5.16.5, Frameworks 5.62.0, Qt 5.12.4, kernel 5.3.0-17
trescryptique
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Re: New distribution required?

Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:12 pm
Hi Mamarok

Exact! This is the reason why I did write:

"clone your actual KDE System on an other PC through net install"

I did not say "copy" your system (with all wrong parameter of the precedent) but clone it re-installing it as a fresh new net install!

Each OS manages all his packages and is potentially able to produce a list of all his package in a convenient form.

For the net install, Ubuntu users use very often a net install ISO with about only 12..17 MB depending of the base used.

If Ubuntu would offer such a net install for cloning and upgrating the actual system

STEP 1: download the net install micro iso 12..17 MB
STEP 2: prepare yourself a free pre formated partition or introduce a CD in the burner or a free USB stick in one USB port
STEP 3: produce the list of you actual packages with user parameters (locale, language, keyboard layout preference) and content of applications. Kubuntu write it into the new partition/on the CD/on the stick
STEP 4: start the net install micro iso 12..17 MB and take a very long cup of good coffee: Ubuntu install fresh a clone of your actual system into the destination!

it would help for a lot of user the transition from version to version and from PC to PC very more attractive!

install!
not
copy...
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Re: New distribution required?

Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:13 pm
If I understand you correctly this might help:

https://wiki.debian.org/ListInstalledPackages


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User avatar Mamarok
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Re: New distribution required?

Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:19 am
Well, you obviously didn't read what I said: you can't clone a system to a machine with different hardware, that makes no sense.

Defining the meaning of the word "clone": make an identical copy of a system installation, which can only work if both machines are totally identical. It can't work if the hardware is different, hence don't clone!


Mamarok, hanging out in the Amarok forum since August, 2007
Currently running Kubuntu 19.10 beta, Plasma 5.16.5, Frameworks 5.62.0, Qt 5.12.4, kernel 5.3.0-17
schabe68
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Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:25 pm
Hi,

meanwhile I installed kubuntu 13.10 as Mamarok suggested. I just want to provide my experiences:

[list]
[*]Mostly everything is based on KDE. So this is a real kde distributon.
[*] The overall expecrience is better than in Kubuntu 12.10. Kubuntu 13.10 gives a very good desktop experience. Thanks a lot for this!
[*] The MTP KIO is working fine with an excellent bandwidth using Dolphin. So it is possible to exchcange files with an android device now. Integration into Amarok was not working for me. Amarok only found a single album showed just the files. When adding a file from a mtp source to the playlist the replay never starts. No errors are displayed.
[*] UPNP support is still missing in 13.10. as already expected.
[*] When I disable the bluetooth device in bluetooth system tray the device can never being activated.
[*] When opening kontact I got an error from akonadi. All checks displayed have been successful. After pressing "ok" akonadi worked well for me. akonadictl status also gives no negative feedback.
[*] Nepomuk is scanning my files currently. I was able to find a odt document by a keyword in 7000 (so far scanned) files. This is the first time nepomuk did this for me.
[*] Muon discover is a dream. The plasmoid collection is a dream (that they are provided, most are not so nice). Sometimes it would be useful to get a "please wait" feedback.
[*] New printer wizard is working well for me.
[/list]

I also had a look at mint. Mint is a 100% gnome dustribution with an added KDE desktop. This means you all the gnome stuff on yur machine and additionally the KDE. For me this is the wrong way, sorry.

There is [b]a lot of[/b] progress in Kubuntu. So for me kubuntu us still the best debian based ubuntu distribution out there. But the basic question remains.... Is Ubuntu a good basis for a KDE desktop? Will it be in future?

 
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