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IM client from *scratch*

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User avatar Madman
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Sun May 30, 2010 11:40 am
But there's nothing actually wrong with Kopete, code-wise (as was explained before). The only time a complete re-write is so completely necessary is when the code is driving people away, but that's not the case. The fact that a port to Akonadi/Telepathy isn't just possible, but is quite simple, is a testament to that.

There's no real reason to re-write it: the code itself is clean, it's being ported to new technologies and it includes features not available in other IM clients (that are more popular!).

Regarding the wish-list: point me to a multi-protocol IM client with HALF of those wishes implemented.


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User avatar Primoz
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Sun May 30, 2010 12:44 pm
This will sound stupid, but I say don't change it, as Kopete works (at least for me...).
And I use GoogleTalk, MSN and Yahoo. And all of those work just fine, yeah I did have to read the manual and search the net a bit, but on the end I got everything working. Well at least things that I need...
File sharing doesn't work on GoogleTalk, and it's Slow on MSN.
But that doesn't mean Kopete should be re-written from scratch. It just means that it should be improved.
But the most changes should be done in manual, meaning more about how to set so that your GoogleTalk works nad Yahoo (this were two IMs I had to search the web to get them to work).
So sorry, but this is one of my few -1 votes.


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User avatar Vistaus
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Sun May 30, 2010 2:21 pm
@Ivan: I'm not sure whether I agree or not with rewriting from scratch.

But I don't agree with you. Kopete's UI is slick, that's for sure. But it's not very user-friendly and the contact list could use some love too.

That's basically why I'm using KMess instead of Kopete.
Don't get me wrong, there are also good things about Kopete. For example, I love the app icon. And the fact that you can theme the whole program is also nice. It's fast, that is also good. And although I only use MSN, it's nice to see that it is multi-protocol.

But still, Kopete has a long way to go to make me use Kopete. If Kopete catches up somewhere in the future, then I might make the switch.
Dinth
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Sun May 30, 2010 3:11 pm
Thanks for link to Real-Time Communication Project. I hope it will be usable also as IM in future.

Im not wanting to rewrite Kopete from scratch simply because i hate it... i even like Kopete in some way. But i thought that making new GUI and connecting it for example to libpurple by dbus, will be much easier task than maintaining several protocol plugins (which are - as we see now - unmaintained. ive looked in kopete svn, and this isnt only gadu related, same applies for qq, meanwhile and others, which werent touched in years).

I thought that making truly akonadi-based contact list will be easier, than hacking existing contactlist to support it.
That making from scratch new, friendly GUI will be much easier than refactoring existing without any plan (and yes, GUI needs refactoring, as you can see in some comments here)
That making simple im client, around existing, complete im library will be much easier than hacking this library to work as protocol plugin.

As poor developer i am, i see things this way. As common IM user, i see, that Kopete team now is able only to fix most serious bugs, and from time to time, change trayicon code to support newer KDE releases. I understand that this is because Kopete team lacks manpower. But thats truth, and without migrating to libpurple/telepathy Kopete will stay *multi* im client only in name.
User avatar toad
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Sun May 30, 2010 3:43 pm
I haven't found kopete to be buggy (use it for skype, icq, jabber and bonjour).

The only thing that peeves me about it is that I cannot start a chat from the systray.

Implement that and it'd be perfect :)

My 2cs


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User avatar Madman
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Sun May 30, 2010 3:45 pm
What exactly is wrong with the GUI, and how have other IM clients done it better?


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Dinth
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Sun May 30, 2010 4:05 pm
First thing which annoyes me in Kopete GUI is connecting and changing statuses.

You should connect (and besides that change status - im not sure because im using pidgin temporary) by icon in bottom right corner.
You should change status (but you can also change status message) by clicking Status button in upper left corner.
And finally you should change status message with icon in bottom left corner.
Am I right? If yes, this is gui-nightmare and worst way of changing statuses i ever seen in any IMclient.

Also "Add contact" icon should be in chat window, not main window. Typically i add unknown user when he write to me, and im not using "add contact" function on list of already added contacts.

"Show all" button and search query are good Kopete GUI ideas, but unfortunately i must click ">" sign to have access to them, because there isnt space for them in standard window.

When i will run Kopete i will write more
User avatar ivan
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Sun May 30, 2010 4:12 pm
@Vistaus

Well, different people have different taste. From my POV, if KMess looks like this http://kmess.org/screenshots/kmess2.0/mainwindow.png kopete's UI wins by far.

And lately, you can even create custom layouts for items in the contact list just like it is possible in amarok/kmail/...


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User avatar Madman
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Sun May 30, 2010 4:25 pm
Dinth wrote:First thing which annoyes me in Kopete GUI is connecting and changing statuses.

You should connect (and besides that change status - im not sure because im using pidgin temporary) by icon in bottom right corner.
You should change status (but you can also change status message) by clicking Status button in upper left corner.
And finally you should change status message with icon in bottom left corner.
Am I right? If yes, this is gui-nightmare and worst way of changing statuses i ever seen in any IMclient.

Also "Add contact" icon should be in chat window, not main window. Typically i add unknown user when he write to me, and im not using "add contact" function on list of already added contacts.

"Show all" button and search query are good Kopete GUI ideas, but unfortunately i must click ">" sign to have access to them, because there isnt space for them in standard window.

When i will run Kopete i will write more


Sorry, but this is just plain wrong. You connect automatically by changing to any status other than offline, so you can connect OR change status by the icon in the bottom right OR the toolbar button at the top left. The icon lets you change the status of individual accounts, but most users won't need that and can do with the toolbar button.

Similarly, changing your status message can be done EITHER from the icon in the bottom left OR by the, "status" toolbar button (under, "Change Message").

The UI of e.g. KMess, or even the official MSN client, wastes lots and LOTS of space that could go straight to the contact list. If you DO change your status message every 5 minutes (which I highly doubt), then it's quick to do it from the icon at the bottom right left.

I actually operate Kopete with the menubar AND status bar completely hidden, and WITHOUT a system tray icon. I can change my status and status message, connect, disconnect or add new contacts all from two buttons on the toolbar. I can group two contacts together into one, "person" by clicking and dragging one on top of the other. Finally, I can actually view more contacts AND more information about individual contacts because I've got YARNS of space. To quit, I just close the window - I've disabled the system tray icon, so it just stops running. *edit: Observe.
Image

That's more than can be said about any other IM client I've ever used, and on my netbook it's especially important.

*additional edit: the KMess image above takes the full height of my screen and can still only display 3 or 4 fewer contacts than my Kopete window. My Kopete window, on the other hand, is something like 150px shorter.


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Dinth
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Sun May 30, 2010 5:28 pm
Regarding metacontacts. Earlier I've forgoten, that also this Kopete feature dont work as expected. Try adding Skype account to metacontact beign in any group, exit Kopete, run Kopete once again. Where is Skype account now ?

So even metacontacts arent this Kopete feature which is good and stable.

Soem of you put Empathy example, which dont have any metacontacts. But check out Pidgin, Miranda IM, AQQ (not sure), Adium (also not sure)... these IM handle meta contacts at least as good as Kopete.

I think that KDE deserves IMclient at least as good as Adium/
User avatar Madman
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Sun May 30, 2010 5:34 pm
You mean, like all these metacontacts I set up months ago and have remained regardless of quiting Kopete or restarting the computer?
Image
A bug in your individual instance of Kopete is hardly cause to re-write the entire application.


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User avatar waldelf
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Sun May 30, 2010 8:22 pm
xmpp works fine for me.. (the only protocol the world needs IMHO)
i like the possibility to have a minimalistic roster.. (no scrollbars, no photos, no buttons, no everything - just contact names with a windowborder around it..


but!
kopete really needs some love and voip - i can do voip with jabber even on my n900 now.. it has to be easy to use, easy to setup, just like skype does it...


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User avatar waldelf
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Sun May 30, 2010 8:25 pm


wasn't that the idea of decibel?

EDIT: oh.. just read the comments here http://grundleborg.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... n-project/

one can say... it IS somehow a successor of decibel... nice !!!!!!


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User avatar ivan
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Sun May 30, 2010 8:38 pm
waldelf wrote:wasn't that the idea of decibel?


IIRC, some parts of Decibel became unneeded/discarded/whatever, but ideas like this one prevailed. The name got lost in the process as well :)

Anyhow, you should really ask IM guys for more details.


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damipereira
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Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:16 am
I think kopete has some fundamental flaws that should be fixed.

-First time you open it you are received with a blank screen,with no clue(at least for me) of how to connect,clicking connect says nothing not even "you have to create an account".

-When finally getting to configurations(after checking a lot of menus) you are received with the "strange" concept of identities (sorry but I still don't really understand what they are for).

-Then you have to go through a wizard with LOTS of options just to connect (adding a new account each time a friends comes by who wants to quick use msn)

-There is no visual feedback when its connecting

-It doesn't show my own picture anywhere, I use to change it all the time and it's useful to know which I'm currently using.

-Not showing status, personal message, etc in the main ui. While it could be seen as saving space, a lot of users change them a lot and sometimes don't really remember what they put.(I know some would say that pressing the button is fast enough but a fast look vs pressing a button is totally different for me).

-Protocol compatibility (This is just from what I heard I only use msn really)

Yet there are some things which kopete is nice at:
-Its fast
-It looks nice and clean, I guess this may be lost if picture and status are shown, but an equilibrium is possible
-multi-protocol
-Lots of small and nice features

PD: I just tried kopete in kde 4.4.3 if any of those things is fixed in trunk,etc.

 
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